Sorcerer CC?

[Malky]

But I assure you that ~20% more spell damage is a lot more valuable than +1 to enchantment DC's. Crushing Despair and a DC of 38 works extremely well for my own sorcerer.

^ this, as long as you have a decent spell pen bonus.

[Darknark]

Fitting in spell pen feats is an extremely hard ask for a sorcerer.

I never said it was going to be easy (the OP wants Good DC's, the ability to land the spells, and moderate/higher damage - all on a "feat starved" class) however I did suggest that they drop the bard life (and take Spell focus Ench if they must...) and take a second wiz life for the +2 spell pen.

[Candela90]

Note: I didn't bother to read most of the posts, so if this is already answered....



Short answer: Yes, also take "hypnotism" (level 1 spell, 10 sp, -3 to will save on mobs) and cast it right before a mass hold.



Long Answer: You dumped spell pen, and that will prevent effective CC in things like Chrono and DA.

Additional stuff:
- I respectfully disagree with the choice of Extend, and the choice of losing Empower.

-Swapping the Spell focus Evocation for SF: conj. If you feel that the Web DC would be helpful.

-Get spell pen. Without it, your DC's aren't going to matter much in EDA/Chrono

I'd also recommend dropping the bard past life, take Spell Focus Enchant instead (and do a second TR as a wizard instead of a bard - Wizard passive Past life is a stacking +2 to Spell pen, stacks up to three times [+6]) - With this change to your 'plan', you'll have the same DC, and 2 more spell pen (saving a spell pen feat).

I was thinking about spell pen. Ure right. I can just drop bard past life and take spell focus: ench, and itll give the same effect without leveling all 20 lvls. Wise .

About Extend it is i can drop it. But not for empowr but for +1 DC for enchentment, without it it wont be 40 DC. Still this idea is theoritical and i know i have to do some work bout it. Maybe 39 DC and Empower is better idea. Will think about it. Just this 40 seems to be like a magical number, when your DC is starting to be "good enough" In all threads i read through it said "On epic 40+ DC". And that got to me.

And +1 for you. I cant believe i missed these things... Thats why i post on forums. I knew i missed sth.

[fuzzy1guy]

A cc sorc is pointless.. cc is secondary for them at best.

If it's dead. it's controlled. You should have the ability to drop multiple thousands of damage in just a few seconds. Very little need for cc when done right.

Any cc should just be used to buy you the 5-8 seconds you need to wipe out everything with raw damage.


I always laugh when i'm asked my sorcerers dc's. And then drop group. They wanted a wizard. Not a sorc. And go find a group who knows the difference.

[zombieaon]

A cc sorc is pointless.. cc is secondary for them at best.


I always laugh when i'm asked my sorcerers dc's. And then drop group. They wanted a wizard. Not a sorc. And go find a group who knows the difference.

I beg to differ, since high DC's is needed for evocation and conjuration to land spells on mobs with evasion and high reflex saves (especially in epics). If you don't have high dc's (40~) to land things like Delayed Blast Fireball or Ottilukes, you're not doing the most damage you can. Also, why limit yourself to one job? Part of being a caster is being utilitarian, and you certainly can't utilize your spells if you think CC is secondary for them at best.

[MRMechMan]

I was thinking about spell pen. Ure right. I can just drop bard past life and take spell focus: ench, and itll give the same effect without leveling all 20 lvls. Wise .

About Extend it is i can drop it. But not for empowr but for +1 DC for enchentment, without it it wont be 40 DC. Still this idea is theoritical and i know i have to do some work bout it. Maybe 39 DC and Empower is better idea. Will think about it. Just this 40 seems to be like a magical number, when your DC is starting to be "good enough" In all threads i read through it said "On epic 40+ DC". And that got to me.

And +1 for you. I cant believe i missed these things... Thats why i post on forums. I knew i missed sth.

You don't need 40 DC to CC in 95% of content if you play smart. Whoever said you need 40 DC to CC most epics is a fool. Just forget that number. It really, really helps in only a few places, and in all of those you need to focus more on spell pen anyway. As a sorc it's generally better to CC with spells that don't have saves, or debuff beforehand.

I'd rather take the 35 DC sorc that lays symbols of death, solid fog, crushing despair, mindfog, cloudkill and such than the 40 DC wiz that just focused on DCs and puts up the occasional disco ball.

Max
Emp
Heighten
Quicken
Toughness
SF:E/SF:C/sorc PL (for savant)

are the ones I find essential for warforged. Fleshies can consider dropping quicken. I still wouldn't. Very well geared players can consider dropping toughess-but I personally like to stay above the "disint the face and live" zone.

So you have one feat to play with.

Wiz PL/Spell pen/SF:necro are all good choices IMO. Wiz PL if available. It is harder to debuff enemy fort saves than will saves and insta kills are king at endgame, so necro focus is a better choice than ench focus IMO.

If you are really, really set on crowd control, you are better off going wizard.

As for the empower thing...

No one will notice if you don't have empower. At the end of the quest they won't stand there and wonder hmmmm did that sorc have empower or not? You can get by without it. So can a barb without power attack and a rogue without GTWF.

But it is certainly a noticable increase in damage (noticable for you) and as a sorc you will have the sp to use it. I'm not saying make a cookie cutter build, just saying why not play to your classes strengths?

[Candela90]

A cc sorc is pointless.. cc is secondary for them at best.

If it's dead. it's controlled. You should have the ability to drop multiple thousands of damage in just a few seconds. Very little need for cc when done right.

Any cc should just be used to buy you the 5-8 seconds you need to wipe out everything with raw damage.


I always laugh when i'm asked my sorcerers dc's. And then drop group. They wanted a wizard. Not a sorc. And go find a group who knows the difference.

Yeah tell my fvs(or somer cleric) that she/he has only to heal, and not kill, or tell rogue that she/he should be doing traps and avoid fights. LoL.... Tell wizzard he has to CC, and have no right to do dmg....

Some people gave me good advines and now i think my feats woulkd look like that:
Tougness
Empower
Maximize
Heighen
Spell Focus: Evo/Conj (for savant)
1x Wizzy Past Life.
1x Spell Focus Ench
__________________________
Up to 39 DC on Ench

And even though Wind Dance is cool... I would go ice savant. Tested ice and ele on my wizzy. Cold def. is better for me.
I can go without quicken on sorc i think.
And i guesss i have to think about these wizzy past lifes for Spen.
As i counted Id need 2 wizzy past life at least. I mean I heard around 30 its ok, right?
20 (caster level) + 3 spell pen. enhancements + 2/3 spell pen item + 4 (2x wizzy past life) = 29/30.
Hope itll be enough.

[MRMechMan]

If you want to focus on CC earth savant is the way to go. Or possibly air for the teir2 SLA stun.

Can get 40 DC reflex perma-hold on orange names/trash in epic easily. 45 with a bit of work. Up to 50 if you go crazy with lvls to con/epic abishai/+4 con tome etc.

Can lock down ANY non red or purple named with that DC...that is control. It has a 12s duration and a 15 second cooldown...so its pretty much permenant. Costs 15 sp and you can use it through walls, doors, across water. Almost nothing is immune. Oozes, undead, wraiths, memphits, earth elementals, abishai sky raiders, air elementals...basically anything is fair game. Maybe not CROWD control, but certainly useful. Often 1 mob is what is giving the party trouble, and that is the best way to neutralize it.