How do you do your Mass Heals in the Shroud Pt. 4 (and/or 5)

[darkniteyogi]

I usually run out of mana in this part.

Either I spam too fast, or I'm using the wrong spells.

I usually spam without stopping Cure moderate and cure serious woulds mass (Emp. Heal & Empowered) 61 SP for 190.

Occasionally when I try to Mass Heal, its often too slow (even with Quicken. I suppose the Right clickable Quicken option is still bugged?) But if I turn the hotbar Button for quicken On, will it use up too much mana for my Cure Mod and Cure serious? Haven't tried yet.

When I ask around, i hear that they use Heal Mass primarily, and Cure moderate in between.

Do the Healers usually take turns? Or do they heal at the same time? I was always too embarassed to really ask the other healer, so I suppose we usually heal at the same time, but I usually run out first.

Probably im healing too much, now i realize that.. But isn't Heal Mass risky since Melees can die pretty quickly?

So, spamming without stopping is really just being safer?

[stainer]

I pick the barb or fighter with the most HP, and center my Mass Heals on him. I cast Divine Punishment, and when the timer is at 1/2 for DP, I cast quickened Mass Heal with all my metas turned on. Hit DP again, and cast Mass Heal when the timer is at half. I may lose a monk or rogue when healing this way, but they should have brought more HPs. This is for normal shroud, of course.

[Kwyjibo]

Normal Shroud....

Rotate between Mass Mod and Mass Crit w/ardor clickie, and as Stainer implied...too few hp, too bad...

[Thebeest]

there are several ways to heal in shroud part 4. one option is to alternate mass heals with other healer, one is to have one healer spamming quickened mass cure mod and mass heal, then if they run out, send in the other healer, and another is to just have no plan and shoot from the hip. i've completed in all scenarios on my fvs healer. i only use mass cure mod and mass heal, not mass serious. mass heal has to be quickened generally, which means, since the right click option is broken, all your heal spells are going to be quickened during that time. not sure why you are running out of sp though, unless taking several rounds to get er done. in-between rounds, use heal scrolls, save your sp. I run with empower healing, maximize, quicken (when needed). also use superior ardor VII clickies.

[Chette]

I usually spam without stopping Cure moderate and cure serious woulds mass (Emp. Heal & Empowered) 61 SP for 190.

This is really SP inefficient, and is probably what's causing you to run out of SP. The mass cures are fast, for those OH **** moments, or for when you're not worried about SP conservation. If you're having issues in Shroud, you shouldn't be using these.

Occasionally when I try to Mass Heal, its often too slow (even with Quicken. I suppose the Right clickable Quicken option is still bugged?) But if I turn the hotbar Button for quicken On, will it use up too much mana for my Cure Mod and Cure serious? Haven't tried yet.

If you are using quickened mass heal, you won't need your cure mod and cure serious at all in normal shroud. Any melee worth a darn can survive the cooldown on mass heal during this raid. So, pick somebody with a lot of hitpoints. Click on them and cast mass heal. Then, while it is on cooldown, cast divine punishment on arraetrikos. Later, rinse repeat. If for some reason they take a huge damage spike while heal is on cooldown, sure, throw a mass cure light. But only occasionally. If the 300 hp rogue is going to die...let him die, or possibly throw him a spot heal.

Do the Healers usually take turns? Or do they heal at the same time? I was always too embarassed to really ask the other healer, so I suppose we usually heal at the same time, but I usually run out first.

Healing over eachother is another huge waste of SP. Usually in shroud it isn't a big deal because the fights aren't that long. But if you are having an issue with SP conservation, yes, take turns. It doesn't necessarily have to be a planned out thing, just watch the other healer. Mass heal has a very visible casting animation. If you watch them, you'll be able to see them casting, and time your heals appropriate. Most times I don't even heal in shroud, because I see the other healer has it covered, so I just nuke. But if I see a spike, I throw a mass cure. With practice you'll get used to it.

Probably im healing too much, now i realize that.. But isn't Heal Mass risky since Melees can die pretty quickly?

If you're watching their HP bars, there shouldn't be any risk. You probably don't want to cast mass-heal when the whole party is at 10% health, no, but damage in Shroud isn't that spikey, and as long as you are reliably casting mass heal and everybody has heavy fort and decent HP, there shouldn't be any deaths. You may have to accept that some squishier low HP characters may die, but don't waste your SP overhealing the entire party just to save them.

[Chai]

Metas off save for quicken and empower heal. People dont need more than a 400 point heal in one shot in most cases. May toss a mass cure crit if needed between the mass heals. Keeping metas on is overkill. I see numbers into the thousands which isnt needed. Saving SP is key - learn this now because it will help on much more difficult scenarios later on.

[darkniteyogi]

im surprised to hear that some even can squeeze in some DP.. maybe im being too paranoid and the people dying are not my fault...

@ Kwyjibo, do you wait a bit for their Hp's to go down and pace yourself? Or do you cast right away as soon as the cooldown is over?

Though its been a while, I learned the way I heal based on my Shroud experiences from my first life as a Cleric where I had a lot of runs with less geared / casual players. Everything seems to be going ok until the Boss does one attack and everyone is half damaged, then quickly within a second does another attack and half the group is dead. So its this quick burst of damage from him that I'm afraid of. And it can happen anytime so I try to just spam non-stop...

What it appears based on both of your replies, i may be trying too hard and doing fine, and if the group dies, its not my fault.. Each of my 3 shroud runs since U12, i've used at least 1 Pot on my FVS. 5, 3 and 1. Hopefully next run its 0. At least as a consolation I was thanked for my healing and we got through them safe.

[darkniteyogi]

Thanks all for the replies,

One thing I ought to do more: Use scrolls to spot heal. May possibly look into more enhancements into Use Scroll as well.

Another thing, this time i'll turn on the manual Quicken button, and use as much Heal Mass as possible and learn to heal more calmly and slowly. A quickened Cure Moderate shouldn't be that costly if I only save it for the quick spikes.

Will see how the next one goes. So far 4 shroud runs. 1st one was Pre update 12.

[Chette]

Another thing to note is obviously the recent change to the blades in Shroud. Are you basing this post on recent experience since the update? Perhaps these guys are dying and sucking up your SP because they are staying in during the blades, or haven't learned how to properly exit.

Staying in during the blades used to be the norm, but it's just not feasible anymore. If the group can't take down the boss before the blades get within reach, they need to pull out at an agreed upon time. Usually one person is the designated caller, and when they say go, everybody pulls out together (watching for the break in the blades) towards the original entry point, so that they can still be healed.

If people are dying during the blades, don't blame yourself. Things should get better as melees adapt to the change.

[Kwyjibo]

@ Kwyjibo, do you wait a bit for their Hp's to go down and pace yourself? Or do you cast right away as soon as the cooldown is over?

Really depends on how bad the lag was before starting part 4. If it's not too bad then I'll hesitate before each casting. With bad lag, it's pretty much when cooldown is over.

[sirgog]

I stand in the middle (until blades come in), and cast Mass Heal centred on myself every cooldown. If lag is low, I often wait a little longer than a cooldown - wait until Harry starts his 'hadooken' spell casting animation and then start casting the MH. Normal, someone else has the job of healing anyone that is not in the centre.

Doing this I occasionally lose some of the lowest HP characters. In my experience, they contribute little DPS or utility and so I'm not fussed to lose them.

When blades get close and people are going to need to run out, I start spamming a lot more healing so that people commence the run through the blades at 100% HP. People *always* get hit evacuating. For this reason I prefer having only people that can survive two blade hits, plus a melee hit, plus a failed DBF save in the group for this reason (~400/470/550 hp n/h/e).

The hardest parts to heal, IMO, are the following two situations:

- Trash (between waves and/or second lot at the start) when heat-seeking blades are causing trouble
- Gnolls (when the group tends to spread out).

[Enoach]

A lot can be said for the Quickened Heal, Mass - with Cure, Mass Standby for its efficiency.

However, that works for groups with enough HP and survival skills to survive the round.

Metamagic costs
Empower Healing - 10
Empower - 10
Maximize - 25
Quicken - 10

Base to Everything possible ON
Cure Light, Mass 30 - 85 SP
Cure Moderate, Mass 35 - 90 SP
Cure Serious, Mass 40 - 95 SP
Cure Critical, Mass 45 - 100 SP
Heal, Mass 50 - 70 SP

Each of these spells is increasingly slower to cast from Light -> Heal

Just this alone points out that Heal, Mass is Cheaper to cast when you use Everything. But Cheaper does not always mean the best approach is to only cast Heal, Mass.

I found either Cure Light, Mass or Cure Moderate, Mass is a good alternate to the Heal, Mass. Again this works well when you have a majority of Melee with 400+ HP as it minimizes the over healing (wasted spell points) and minimizes risk of losing melee to damage.

However, if your melee average is 400- you can still pull this off by going Cure Serious, Mass and Cure Light/Mod, Mass - only use Empower Healing Metamagic. That will be a 50 and 40/45 SP cost and minimizes large over healing waste. Of course with these HP the blade exit will be more of a challenge and if the group does not exit together they may find themselves not among the living.

Of course these suggestion are based on having at least the 3rd Tier in Healing Specialization for Cleric/FvS (works better with Radiant Servant due to the 75% vs 50% boost from Empower Healing) and should be adjusted according to Healing Enhancements vs Party Healing Amplification. While not the norm - If you ever find yourself healing groups with 200%+ healing amplification - you can save SP by using something more suited for the situation. Its nice to see 1,500 in Green above a party member, but when that is 3x what they have you suddenly realize hmmm a Cure Light could have done the trick.

Also use Ardor - Superior Ardor being the preferred as its a larger enhancement. It last 3 minutes so that is enough time for it to be available per round. I personally Carry 2 items with 6 clicks total on my Cleric.

More advanced technique is to incorporate Lesser Maximize (Noxious Embers / Ornamental Dagger). I would suggest setting these as separate Cure, Mass icons on your hot bar with MAXIMIZE always on, as you only want to use these versions when you have activated Lesser Maximize. it lasts 20 seconds each and you can get about 3 possibly 4 casts in during that time. Depending on enhancements this can heal almost as much as Heal, Mass without the poison/disease clearing effects for less SP.


Scroll Spot Healing is also a great SP saver as already mentioned.

[Meat-Head]

1. Mass heal with quicken and emp heal centered on high HP melee.

2. WATCH OTHER HEALER and cast in between their casts.

3. Mass cure serious only in emergency situations.

4. Any melee that can't survive that needs to die. (honestly, they NEED to die. That way they MIGHT learn about hps)

5. Might do some mass cure mod/serious when coming out of blades, but that's about it. You should NOT run out of sp this way on norm. If you do, check your metas/ you're overhealing.

6. Once you're comfortable with this, starting throwing DP into the mix. In the end, it'll help it go faster which means less healing which means it's sp neutral or better.

[tkneip1874]

one thing you may or may not be aware of is when selecting metas on with each spell, make sure quicken is always on standard. the problem is that if you cast a spell where u turned off quicken (buffs for example) the for some reason it remembers to turn quicken off for the rest of the spells. it has been a bug since they came out with it.

[HGM-Chi]

I stand with the melees with Harry targeted, and cast divine punishment on him whenever it cools down. I cast Quicken, Empowered, Empower Healed Mass heals when my hitpoints hit half. With the U12 changes I expect someone to call when it is time to leave the blades, and when they do I back away and pop a mass cure or two as we go through the incoming ring'o'blades. This has worked for me on normal pretty solidly, hard kinda meh, and I've not tried on Elite. Probably for hard/elites going forward I'll stay out of melee, but use the same basic strategy for healing (with a few spot heals for myself when the roaming blades tag me).

If a second healer is involved you can either have them do spot mass cures/heals if they think someone is dropping low for any reason (as well as their Divine Punishments). Alternatively you can stand outside the blades with the other healer and watch each other cast to alternate mass heals while both keeping DP up.

[ice584]

{quote}I stand in the middle (until blades come in), and cast Mass Heal centred on myself every cooldown.{quote}
I disagree with this on so many levels. *shrug*

Metamagic feats on: Quicken, Empower Heal (and usually Maximize too)
1) Designate an anchor
2) Cast Cure Moderate Mass or Cure Critical Mass when one of them starts to get low.
3) Begin casting Mass Heal when the Mass Mod/Crit is finished
4) One or two cycles of this and that usually satisfies a round of Harry's attack chain.
5) If only one person is low and everyone else is full (such is the case with a good tank and smart party) just send a single-target heal to bide some time. (When s*** hits the fan, use your cure spells to inject some quick health, creating a buffer for your Mass Heal casting time.)
6) Wait for melee to get low again
7) Goto Step 2

Spamming Mass Heal is a complete waste, IMO. It is just used as a means to limp an incompetent/inexperienced healer along through the quest without having to teach him anything about healing. It is not a strategy that should be used by competent healers. It makes me sad inside every time I see people do it.

Harry usually has spurts where he doesn't really do much melee damage and heals aren't needed at all for 5-10 seconds. Even with a mediocre PUG group, sp conservation is not an issue if you just pay attention to how fast the party is taking damage. *Time your heals to harry's attacks and minimize over-heal.*

I can't say that this strategy will work for Clerics, because I don't have one. But, I imagine you could use Cure Light/Mod Mass instead since Cleric heals generally do much more. I have solo-healed a PUG on part 4, Normal Shroud (after our other healer died very shortly after starting) post-U12 without any problems. I have over 3k sp, but IMO that is something any descent healing-specd FvS should have.

Just my two cents.

[ice584]

sadface @ all these posts that include dealing damage

healer != dealing damage

[sirgog]

sadface @ all these posts that include dealing damage

healer != dealing damage

DDO's divine classes != healers then.

Sure, go healbot-only while learning to play a divine, but in a fight where incoming damage isn't high, the boss has low HP and there's a soft time limit (massive additional spawns after a fixed time) - if you aren't doing damage, you aren't playing optimally.

Healing is 3/4s of the job of a divine caster in this game.

[twigzz]

On my FvS, I anchor on myself and rotate mass heal, DP and maybe a Cure mass if theres alot of squishies.

[EvilI]

I pick the barb or fighter with the most HP, and center my Mass Heals on him. I cast Divine Punishment, and when the timer is at 1/2 for DP, I cast quickened Mass Heal with all my metas turned on. Hit DP again, and cast Mass Heal when the timer is at half. I may lose a monk or rogue when healing this way, but they should have brought more HPs. This is for normal shroud, of course.

If you heal that way you will lose a couple of monks or rogues, and no offense but it will be your fault. I haven't healed the new Shroud, but the way to do it used to be to cast a mass heal with only quicken (no other metas) every time it came of cooldown, and cycle with a maximized quickened mass cure light or serious wounds whenever someone in the melee group was running low on hp. Click the healers belt from amrath just before harry drops down, or just use a regular superior ardor VI clicky for MCLW if you haven't gotten the belt yet (skip MCSW in that case). DoT harry between heals. There used to be no excuse for letting anyone with over 300hp die in the old Shroud. Nowadays of course, it's a whole other story...

Mass cure serious or light are better than moderate because we only get 3 level 6 spells, and they need to count. Disregard that advice if for some reason you did not opt to play The Master Class.

P.S. Saying losing some of the lower hp characters did not damage dps is arrogant, but can be true under the assumption that they were not rogues and/or this wasn't before harrys fort was buffed D.S.