What to do with my wizard?

[Qaliya]

This is an attempt to get more specific build advice. It's based on the complaint/feedback thread that I have currently in General where I express my frustration with my attempt to build an evocation-based archmage, which is turning out both to be too weak at high levels, and hampered by the messed up spells used for the high level evocation SLAs.

I'm currently 18 and spec'ced as an AM with Evocation primary and Conjuration secondary. I have Arcane Bolt and Blast, all five Evocation SLAs and grease/web for Conjuration. I have a lot of metas since they are free on (most of the SLAs).

This character actually does very well on bosses. Very little is immune to the damage I hurl, and I can contribute quite a bit when I'm facing only one or two mobs. It is with high-HP trash that I am having a lot of difficulty. Especially because of the long cooldowns, and because Cyclonic Blast is screwed up and some 25% of the time does 1/10 of the damage it's supposed to.

I need to decide whether to respec as AM, or go to PM. Frankly, I really don't want to go necro because everyone does necro and I don't have the gear or past lives to be really good at it. I want to be able to contribute in a different way, but I'm not sure what is viable at end game except for necronecronecro. Is there another type of build that is actually useful and can contribute to a group in some way other than level draining and instakills?

Or maybe I should just forget about it and TR again.

Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated.

[Qaliya]

Okay I'm replying to myself.

I think I like the idea of trying a conjuration/enchantment CC support specialist. What is the best way to build this?

Thanks.

[Mrmorphling]

Probably not the advice you are sseeking but...

To stay AM is perfectly fine but to ditch necro is not, at the moment it's the best way to handle the trash, from waterworks to Epic Lord of Blades so i would suggest something along those lines:

Main spec necro (SF and GSF) to max your DC and you'll be fine on a first life, don't worry (40+ is well within reach)

Minor in enchantment (SF) to grab free hypno (very usefull debuf to help landing massholds and ottos')

Minor in conjuration (SF) to grab free web (prolly best CC nowadays)

Rest of the feats are pretty standard, one spell penetration, metas (apart extend), toughenss and insightfull reflexes if you got space (it should fit on human)

If you are dead set on avoiding necro spec like plague i guess you can do:
MAjor in Enchant (SF+GSF)
Minor in Conju (SF)
But it won't solve your issues with trashes as even while held you'll still need to DPS them one by one or near so and it's neither SP nor time effective.

[Kinerd]

You can absolutely contribute to a group focusing on CC. My wizard has SF/GSF Enchant + AM and SF Conjuration + AM 2, and we don't have a problem in epics. With that said, my wizard also has SF/GSF Necro, and it's very handy. Judicious use of Finger of Death and PWK go a very long way.

[Enoach]

What Meta's are you using? Did you invest in the Enhancement Lines (Fire/Lightning/Acid/Cold/Force)?
Are you using Potency or Enhancement Clickies for the appropriate element?

As a First Life 18th level Wizard you should only be behind in Nuking style against an 18th Sorcerer by Spell points (All things being equal Wizard has 2/3rds the SP of a Sorcerer) and depending on which Sorcerer your comparing yourself too, their Element of Choice.

Are you specializing in an element? or are you spreading yourself to thin? Also are you using the appropriate element against the creatures you are facing. Met a Caster once that complained he couldn't do any damage to the Demon Queen, ranted about all his uber gear and how it wasn't right, only to finally admit he was trying to use Lightning (Pre PrE)

Before you abandon your Evocation Style evaluate if you have invested enough to make it work...

Wizards don't get many of the damage enhancements that Sorcerer's can get so comparing your DPS to them based only on that, you will never measure up. However, Wizards specialize in Schools - means spells where its all or some have a higher ALL potential.

Going Enchantment/Conjuration is more of a CC direction - Less Direct Damage and more Control/Damage Mitigation. When you have enough DPS this method can make difficult encounters a snap.

[Qaliya]

What Meta's are you using? Did you invest in the Enhancement Lines (Fire/Lightning/Acid/Cold/Force)?

First, being an archmage sucks up enormous numbers of APs. And for Evo, all the spells are force or untyped, so I built up my untyped damage lines. I have Superior Potency VI equipped.

The damage I can deal out was honestly just fine until I got to about this level. And it might still be okay if Cyclonic Blast didn't suck. But I cannot keep up with the monster HP now.

Being an elemental blaster is utterly pointless for an AM. Even with maxed enhancements I'd be out of SP after a couple of fights. If that.

Probably not the advice you are sseeking but...
If you are dead set on avoiding necro spec like plague i guess you can do:
MAjor in Enchant (SF+GSF)
Minor in Conju (SF)
But it won't solve your issues with trashes as even while held you'll still need to DPS them one by one or near so and it's neither SP nor time effective.

The idea is to let the rest of the party do the damage, I guess.

You can absolutely contribute to a group focusing on CC. My wizard has SF/GSF Enchant + AM and SF Conjuration + AM 2, and we don't have a problem in epics. With that said, my wizard also has SF/GSF Necro, and it's very handy. Judicious use of Finger of Death and PWK go a very long way.

That's five feats invested on SF/GSF? Seems like an awful lot. You're giving up quite a bit to get that.

[Credinus]

I too am curious about this, as I am working up an evocation archmage myself (currently level 11.2). After a good bit of research, I think the best route to take if you want to keep evocation as your focus is to just take the evo SLA's up to chain missiles, and use the AP you'd otherwise spend on getting to cyclonic blast elsewhere (although still take up AM base enhancements for the extra SP). Crowd control archmages and pale masters are the superior breed in the late game, though; unfortunately for me I prefer to solo most of the time due to not having a whole lot of time to play anyway which counts out crowd control focus, and necro just doesn't appeal to me at all.


Honestly, evo archmages would be much more useful if three things happened:
1) Cyclonic blast was both fixed in its buggy damage output and the SLA SP cost was reduced to 12 (in order to be usable within echoes of power)
2) Arcane bolt and blast had any one of the following changes made: a) remove reflex save b) change to loaded dice (1d3+3 damage per level) or c) allow them to be maximized/empowered
3) The fourth SLA was changed from Fire Shield to Force Missile. Fire Shield, aside from being a fairly crappy spell anyway, doesn't even fit in with the rest of the line; force missile just makes more sense.

As it stands, I honestly feel that overall the evocation line is probably the weakest archmage line at the endgame, besides necromancy. While it is arguably one of the best up to that point, the weak damage output of your SLA's don't make up for all the instakill and/or crowd stoppers the other lines get as their 4th and 5th SLA's.

Out of curiosity, how well was your chain missile + arcane blast SLA combo handling groups? I haven't gotten to play around with maximized/empowered chain missiles much due to the high SP cost, but it seems like it won't be very reliable due to its 8 second cooldown (which is pretty lame; I'd rather it cost the standard 75 max spell points with 6 second cooldown than the 50 max SP cost with 8 second cooldown). As I mentioned, the majority of my questing is done solo, and I fear that my mob management is going to become extremely difficult as more and more things become immune to my firewall.

[Qaliya]

I too am curious about this, as I am working up an evocation archmage myself (currently level 11.2). After a good bit of research, I think the best route to take if you want to keep evocation as your focus is to just take the evo SLA's up to chain missiles, and use the AP you'd otherwise spend on getting to cyclonic blast elsewhere (although still take up AM base enhancements for the extra SP).

This is the usual advice and generally a good idea. Just realize that the 225 SP you save by stopping at chain missiles is not going to actually deal a whole lot of damage for you as a wizard.

When Cyc Blast actually works, it can pump a lot of damage for 15 SP. But it's a real nuisance in its current state.

Crowd control archmages and pale masters are the superior breed in the late game, though; unfortunately for me I prefer to solo most of the time due to not having a whole lot of time to play anyway which counts out crowd control focus, and necro just doesn't appeal to me at all.

I hear you. But frankly, I think once you get to the Vale, you are not going to be able to solo much as an evoker AM. I tried to solo Coalescence Chamber today and had to drink two pots to get through it even with my SLAs. As a PM you are much more likely to be able to solo standard content at higher levels.

Out of curiosity, how well was your chain missile + arcane blast SLA combo handling groups?

Chain missiles is actually the best part of the evoker SLA line. At level 18 it usually hits for around 200 on the first mob and then another 200 or so on secondary mobs. Almost nothing is immune to it, and with enlarge I can hit on it from quite a distance.

The problem with arcane blast is that it cannot be meta'ed and it has a reflex save. And you know what that means -- lots of evasion. And its base damage doesn't scale nearly as fast as monster HP.

I may take it if I respec away from evoker just to have something, but it's not a lot.

As I mentioned, the majority of my questing is done solo, and I fear that my mob management is going to become extremely difficult as more and more things become immune to my firewall.

If you haven't done it yet, take a secondary in conjuration for heightened webs. They work really, really well, especially if you are soloing. And they aren't burned away by firewalls (oddly) only burst-type stuff such as fireball (and Cyclonic Blast, another reason it sucks.)

Plus you get grease for 1 SP to play tricks on parties while waiting for that guy who just had to get ship buffs.

[sephiroth1084]

You could try running the AM the way I run my PM at times...Mass Hold, Ice Storm, spam Necrotic (Arcane in your case) Blast and Bolt on the held mobs. You may need to add something else to your rotation there, since I believe ABs have a longer cooldown than NBs, and because you're not going to have the added damage from Death Aura ticking away as well...Maybe Acid Fog or something?

Mass Hold both stops the trash and gives your spells +50% damage. If you're kinda low on SP, it's actually a reasonable way to take out groups (make sure you're jumping around back and forth across the mobs still held to catch the ones free on the stationary guys, while healing). Ice Storm benefits from your Force line as well, which is a plus.

Could conceivably go Enchant x2, Evo x1, and spam ABlast, Evocation SLAs, ABolt.

[Qaliya]

You could try running the AM the way I run my PM at times...Mass Hold, Ice Storm, spam Necrotic (Arcane in your case) Blast and Bolt on the held mobs. You may need to add something else to your rotation there, since I believe ABs have a longer cooldown than NBs, and because you're not going to have the added damage from Death Aura ticking away as well...Maybe Acid Fog or something?

Dunno, but I'm going to have to definitely concentrate on AoE spells to kill things now.

Could conceivably go Enchant x2, Evo x1, and spam ABlast, Evocation SLAs, ABolt.

Without taking GSF:Evocation all you get for evocation SLAs is magic missile. Gust of Wind is pretty useless.

[Drekisen]

I basically do not compete at all when partying, I feel with a Wizard you are more like an overlord....watching over your party members, giving them important buffs and/or repairs if you have WF'ed present and laying down offensive spells when they are truly important.

Otherwise I just pluck away at things with wands and any SLA's I may have and let the grunts do most of the work.....If I am in a caster heavy party I still play conservatively and am strong backup when they find themselves all oout of mana in their desperate plight to show who is the better caster by blasting all their SP too fast and having to go through a bunch more mobs before the next shrine.

I've always went with the belief that magic should only be used in the utmost need.

That being said I think going an AM enchantment/conj. caster is a very fine choice as these types of spells do not have to be cast that often to have a great effect on the quests outcome.

[Kinerd]

That's five feats invested on SF/GSF? Seems like an awful lot. You're giving up quite a bit to get that.

I disagree, the only feat I couldn't get that I wanted was Empower, and I only kind of wanted it. I got:

Toughness, Spell Pen, GSF Enchant and Necro, Greater Spell Pen, Maximize, Quicken on regular feats
Mental Toughness, SF Enchant/Necro/Conj, Heighten on wizard feats

I don't remember exactly where the feats went, but they all fit where they're listed so we'll go with that. If I want Empower on something, I'd want Maximize on it too, so Empower would only be a 25% damage increase, and that's not worth dropping any of my other abilities to me.

For other possible feats: I'm not at all sold on Insightful Reflexes for a pure wizard, none of the other schools are interesting to me as a CC focus, buffs last plenty long enough without Extend, what else could you want? If you wanted to fit in PL: Wizard (not available to my character), GSF Necro can be dropped easily with the AM choices I made.

[goodspeed]

This is an attempt to get more specific build advice. It's based on the complaint/feedback thread that I have currently in General where I express my frustration with my attempt to build an evocation-based archmage, which is turning out both to be too weak at high levels, and hampered by the messed up spells used for the high level evocation SLAs.

I'm currently 18 and spec'ced as an AM with Evocation primary and Conjuration secondary. I have Arcane Bolt and Blast, all five Evocation SLAs and grease/web for Conjuration. I have a lot of metas since they are free on (most of the SLAs).

This character actually does very well on bosses. Very little is immune to the damage I hurl, and I can contribute quite a bit when I'm facing only one or two mobs. It is with high-HP trash that I am having a lot of difficulty. Especially because of the long cooldowns, and because Cyclonic Blast is screwed up and some 25% of the time does 1/10 of the damage it's supposed to.

I need to decide whether to respec as AM, or go to PM. Frankly, I really don't want to go necro because everyone does necro and I don't have the gear or past lives to be really good at it. I want to be able to contribute in a different way, but I'm not sure what is viable at end game except for necronecronecro. Is there another type of build that is actually useful and can contribute to a group in some way other than level draining and instakills?

Or maybe I should just forget about it and TR again.

Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated.

archmages got sacked by Bobby Boucher in u9 All the sla's timers were jacked up, the sla's themselves altered, the result was their was no sound reason to go evocation as an archmage. Before u9 oh ya, you could whip force and rays, some cc. But once the sorcerers finally got their pre's and then they just pimpslapped evocation archmages that ship long since took off.

Archmages are great though at cc. They have limitless supplies of it from web to hypno, they can easily control the battle making life much much easier when it counts. Especially in high end raids and epics. Necromancy is good to but it's also a lil costly and never know when something might slip. AM cc has it cheap, has it maxed, and has it in supply always with echo.

That pale might be badass everything dieing around em. But let me tell ya, come something like devil assault, disco ball and mass hold monster in a good dc is what keeps the **** from exploding from that fan. My sorc can crit and dmg like no tomarrow, and can esure those elemental don't catch the group. But it's the cc wiz that keeps the backbone of the force at bay.

[Credinus]

You've likely already moved on to greener pastures by now, but if not, here's an idea I'm likely going to go with once I get closer to level 20... Drop the whole evocation archmage line altogether (though the feats could still be kept since the extra DC would still be viable with this plan) and go for a meta magic efficiency nuker. Going with all three tiers of meta efficiency enhancements for maximize and empower, plus wearing the second tier efficiencies for them on items, would make you able to cast max+empower for only 19 additional SP (18 with capstone). This seems like it would be a far more efficient use of AP than the evocation SLA's, since the SLA's are REALLY lacking in true AoE (with arcane blast being the only one, and it has a reflex save on top of extremely pathetic potential damage; it's also terribly buggy with when it explodes and who all it hits in my experience with it). With the AP freed up (and much higher max SP), you can work on grouping as many mobs as you can up and throwing a couple true AoE damage spells at them to weed them all out in one swoop. In the end, you'll probably end up using even less SP than relying on the SLA's: 78 SP to kill 20-30 mobs with a couple cones of cold, or probably 2x that amount rotating magic missile, chain missile, arcane bolt, and arcane blast SLA's.


You could still go for the conjuration web SLA for a few extra AP and only a minor reduction to SP, and then drop some points into elemental enhancements so that you always have the right tool for the job.

Evocation just doesn't hold up towards the end. If I use only my SLA's, it takes me over 100 SP to kill one tiefling lieutenant in Shavarath; this is with a superior impact clickie going, 7/4/4 in force enhancements, and a major kinetic lore item. I could definitely use SP more efficiently if I had the meta efficiency and just grouped the buggers up for a couple of AoE blasts. See http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352805 for some suggestions to make evocation a more viable option in the late game, but as it stands now, I just can't see any justification for the AP and reduced SP of the evocation line in the later levels where enemy HP far outweighs the damage the SLA's can do.