What's so special about Power Attack?

[Dandonk]

PA is very useful for THF, since +10 damage is almost always better than +5 attack.

Also keep in mind which classes have good Base Attack Bonuses (comparing at lvl 20):

Artificer +15
Barbarian +20
Bard +15
Cleric +15
Favored Soul +15
Fighter +20
Monk +15
Paladin +20
Ranger +20
Rogue +15
Sorcerer +10
Wizard +10

As you can see, PA is not that useful for your FvS and Monk as for other melee classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger).
But when you have many attack bonuses (some good gear, various buffs, etc.) then PA is still very useful.
As others mentioned, it also depends on which mobs you are fighting.

Ummm....

Fvs get Divine Power, a buff that gives them the full +20 BAB. Monks using monk weapons/unarmed get full BAB also.

Now, these two classes may have to hit issues due to not having as many to hit bonuses from class features (weapon focus feats, FE bonuses, PrE bonuses, whatever), but it has nothing to do with their BAB in itself.

[Shattered.likeness]

Hows that even possible? Whats your str score? Whats making your to-hit rolls so low?

Once I get home in a few hours, I'll let you know. I know that I took an 18 in STR at creation, have put all points into STR, and am using the lvl 16 Brawlers Gloves (+6 STR).

Against Harry in a normal shroud, I miss constantly with PA on (about 40 - 50% actually hit), with full ship buffs in part 4. This is with the above mentioned +3 wraps above. Stonedust wraps improve this a little, but not by much.

I've been using Oremi's Necklace this life, instead of my shimmering arrowhead. Maybe need to switch that out during boss fights.

[Robai]

Ummm....

Fvs get Divine Power, a buff that gives them the full +20 BAB. Monks using monk weapons/unarmed get full BAB also.

Now, these two classes may have to hit issues due to not having as many to hit bonuses from class features (weapon focus feats, FE bonuses, PrE bonuses, whatever), but it has nothing to do with their BAB in itself.

I agree that Divine Power gives full BAB, but can you explain how Monks get full BAB?

[Dandonk]

I agree that Divine Power gives full BAB, but can you explain how Monks get full BAB?

DDO's version of Flurry of Blows makes a monk get full BAB while centered and using monk weapons.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Flurry_of_Blows
http://ddowiki.com/page/Flurry_of_Blows

[Robai]

Thank you Dandonk, good to know.

[CountHenri]

Once I get home in a few hours, I'll let you know. I know that I took an 18 in STR at creation, have put all points into STR, and am using the lvl 16 Brawlers Gloves (+6 STR).

Against Harry in a normal shroud, I miss constantly with PA on (about 40 - 50% actually hit), with full ship buffs in part 4. This is with the above mentioned +3 wraps above. Stonedust wraps improve this a little, but not by much.

I've been using Oremi's Necklace this life, instead of my shimmering arrowhead. Maybe need to switch that out during boss fights.

Ummmm well a) Shimmering Arrowhead is a trinket slot not necklace & b) if you are using the Weapon Finese feat its DEX that determines your to hit not STR...

[Muldamai]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and it doesn't show up in the description of PA, at low levels PA scales until a certain level (I haven't checked, but I think level 10) it maxes at -5/+5. At level 4, PA is either -1/+1, or -2/+2, I think the latter. I just remember seeing that when testing it, but don't remember exactly how it scales. So it is useful at very low levels (which doesn't apply for very long, but just sayin').

[Vissarion]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and it doesn't show up in the description of PA, at low levels PA scales until a certain level (I haven't checked, but I think level 10) it maxes at -5/+5. At level 4, PA is either -1/+1, or -2/+2, I think the latter. I just remember seeing that when testing it, but don't remember exactly how it scales. So it is useful at very low levels (which doesn't apply for very long, but just sayin').

This is incorrect in part. Power Attack does scale with level, but it only does it according to your BAB progression. Most melee classes will have the full -5/+5 by level five.

[sirgog]

Once you can equip a Goggles of Accuracy +4 from Cannith crafting, and use a Gird - turn PA on and almost never off again.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Despite being quite condescending, boarding on rude and trollish, at times, I will answer your question.

I rarely see anyone suggest power attack is useful at lv 5. Personally I take it around 9/10 depending on the character.

Reguardless, power attack is a toggle. Turn it off when you dont hit on a 2 and it works great. Clearing trash quicker and saving resources is great.

I didn't find the OP particularly bad. It is indeed a bit of an issue how much people push power attack when in reality it isn't appropriate for many builds to take in most situations until as late as possible.

That said, while leveling up even on a low AB build there are plenty of low AC targets out there like zombies and portals against which power attack can save significant time.

It's your Attack Bonus plus all your buffs.

AB is your attack bonus (which includes all your buffs).
BAB is your base attack bonus (as explained later).

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and it doesn't show up in the description of PA, at low levels PA scales until a certain level (I haven't checked, but I think level 10) it maxes at -5/+5. At level 4, PA is either -1/+1, or -2/+2, I think the latter. I just remember seeing that when testing it, but don't remember exactly how it scales. So it is useful at very low levels (which doesn't apply for very long, but just sayin').

Yeah, power attack is limited by your base attack bonus which you can see on your character sheet. It's quite possible in most situations to overcome the penalties to attack as they start off quite small and progress differently depending on class.

It should be noted that even missing on a 2 with power attack on is sometimes ok due to the progressive attack chain. So, if you miss on a 2 on the first attack then overall you'll only be missing 2.5% of the time extra (as only half of your attack will miss 5% of the time). Another big factor is if you are moving. Moving (or using various twitching techniques) will often cause a -4 movement penalty to AB and it will also deny you access to your attack chain. Therefore, you will be missing the 5% above (instead of 2.5%) + the 20% miss chance from moving so suddenly 25% misses (on top of the usual 5% miss chance for rolling a 1).

Paying attention to the die rolls that you see coming up and trying to gauge the AC of the foes that you are fighting is a very important skill. Eventually you'll just know I'm sure. Getting together +AB gear (which has already been listed) will help a lot. Getting the confidence to hassle your teammates in a constructive manner to provide appropriate buffs and debuffs will make quests run a lot smoother.

Unfortunately the structure is a bit messed up. Usually the only groups with enough discipline to make use of things like AC debuffs and the full array of AB buffs are also the groups that don't need them in the first place (as they have close to the max AB possible for a given level).

In the end, it is possible for basically any build to hit on a 2 with appropriate gear, buffs and debuffs so power attack should always be featured in the feat lineup unless it is absolutely impossible and even if you don't have the gear now there will be plenty of situations in which it will still be useful (portals, many low AC bosses, held/stunned mobs, favour/loot runs etc).

[FrozenNova]

Take it early on THF toons where it's a big boost and you don't have any attack penalties and the THF line itself is not hugely impressive in any case.

Take it late on TWF toons where you're facing typically -4 attack and usually more from lower strength, and getting TWF asap is important.

Fairly straightforward in practice.

[Meetch1972]

Hmmm...

I'm not 100% sure on this, but what do you have to roll to hit a held/paralysed mob? If the answer is a 2 no matter what your to-hit bonus, then turn PA on and beat 'em down quicker.

Situationally, lowering your to-hit bonus can also help a glass cannon avoid aggro. Best example for me was the first time Crystal Cove came around and in one of many runs my dwarf suffered 14 neg levels during the challenge... which completely screwed up his BAB, as well as hit points! However, back then vorpal was insta-kill on all the trash. The ONLY time I hit stuff wielding dual vorpal DAxes was when I rolled a 20. He didn't die and was unable to acquire DPS related aggro, and when properly hasted managed to lead the kill count on trash because he only ever hit on a vorpal strike. Now vorpal's nerfed, that would be a far more painful experience.

If you could get your to-hit bonus low enough that you have to roll a critical to hit, and you could get enough seeker to confirm all your critical hits, then most hits would be crits - if they come with useful effects then you can help your team win. However, at least now afaik the gap is too large to make this happen ... for now. Or am I mistaken?

[Sweyn]

Hmmm...

I'm not 100% sure on this, but what do you have to roll to hit a held/paralysed mob? If the answer is a 2 no matter what your to-hit bonus, then turn PA on and beat 'em down quicker.

The same as if unheld. After the nerf to autocrit, turbine made it so you just deal 50% more damage... you still need to roll the same number to hit.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The same as if unheld. After the nerf to autocrit, turbine made it so you just deal 50% more damage... you still need to roll the same number to hit.

Pretty sure that it is auto sneak attack, auto flank at least though. Possibly denies them their dex bonus to AC or is that just wishful thinking?

[Cam_Neely]

Pretty sure that it is auto sneak attack, auto flank at least though. Possibly denies them their dex bonus to AC or is that just wishful thinking?

I know the bold is true, and I think the other two are true as well (but cant find a source)

[somenewnoob]

At lower levels it isn't that great. At higher levels and at cap it is pretty great.

On a capped pure fighter I leave it on 99% of the time, there are only a couple very high AC epic mobs that I turn it off for.

[Truga]

Also, saying that rogues have bad to hit is just not true. As long as you're sneak attacking, your to-hit should be literally through the roof. And if you're not sneak attacking, you're doing it wrong anyway.

[gloopygloop]

I take Power Attack as one of my first couple of feats because it has no BAB requirement. Since there are so many feats that I want that do have a BAB requirement, I have to save my later-level feats for those. That means Power Attack is chosen early even though the early levels isn't when I use it.

Same thing goes for TWF. If I'm making a Two Weapon Fighting melee character, I'll take the TWF feats, but I'll still only fight with a Two Handed weapon until around level 9-ish.

[PurpleTimb]

Pretty sure that it is auto sneak attack, auto flank at least though. Possibly denies them their dex bonus to AC or is that just wishful thinking?

I don't know about held mobs, but I know for a fact that paralyzing does not grant auto sneak attack. When soloing with my acrobat, I use a paralyzing staff until the big green bubble pops up, then I have to bluff the paralyzed mob to get my sneak attacks to start registering.

As far as the OP goes, I usually play in a static group without most/any of the listed to-hit buffs. I start each quest with power attack on, and turn it off if I start seeing more misses than hits. I have some divine power clickies and heroism potions, but often the micro-management of short buffs is just more than I want to bother with.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

PA does more damage. For certain races/classes a lot more damage.
That damage is multiplied fo rcrits I believe. Again...for some builds multiplied a heck of a lot!

That said, I don't think it is as great as people make it out to be. Epecially at low lvls.

Cause if you miss, you do zero damage. And at low lvls, you miss a lot. In some epics, you miss a lot.

IMO, certain builds should take it. But have enough sense to turn it off sometimes too.