Advice on putting up an LFM

[Bonulino]

Although I usually wait to for someone else to put up an LFM for a dungeon I want to run and then join their group, I do sometimes put up my own LFM's. Up to now, I have been having a hard time getting groups together that match what I thought I had asked for in the LFM. I would like some advice in how to word the LFM's to maximize my chances of a fun group. Here are some questions I have:

1. Although the portion of the LFM that displays the quest name also shows what difficulty at which you will run it, I still always get people who ask to join and and then are unhappy with the difficulty I have chosen. I guess people just don't run the cursor over the quest name and check. If I always spell it out in words in the comments, will that solve the problem?

2. I try to attract people who will stick together and work together by putting in things like "team players only", "stick together" etc. It still seems like the majority of the people run off in all directions and do their own things. This is especially annoying when I am playing my Cleric toon, and have to try to hunt these people down when they need healing. What could I do differently to get people who will behave as a team instead of an uncoordinated mob.

3. Is it worth it to specify "no microphones" or "typing only"? Usually I prefer the voice chat, but if someone has a poor microphone, everything they say gets garbled. Generally, they do not want to switch to typing, and will keep repeating what they just said, even though it is every bit as garbled as the first time they said it.

Just a little more info on my toons and how I like to run dungeons: I have only 2 toons, a capped Barbarian and a level 5 Cleric. Neither is a TR and neither is uber. I like to go slow enough to enjoy a dungeon, kill every monster possible and get every scrap of loot possible. Especially on my Cleric, I want to be able to practice healing and buffing. This is hard to do if the team splits into 3 or 4 different groups or if they all run off at top speed. The last dungeon I ran in a pug with that toon she spent most of her time beating Kobolds with a mace and almost none of the time healing. There must be people out there who share my preferred playing style. How do I tap into them?

[KillEveryone]

People don't often read the LFM so you will always have someone joining and asking what quest and what difficulty. They may read the comments but not always cursor over and check the difficulty.

"Team play" should get those that want to play that style. "No-zerg" is also another one that will also keep away the zergers.

If you don't want to type then use "Voice only" and boot those that don't have a mic. You can also go with "no-voice" if you want only text.

[teh_meh]

Keep expectations low. People tend to be lazy about reading lfm's. Generally, they are magnets for people you don't want.

You sound like a hard working raid leader. Get into a good guild or channel and form groups exclusively from there.

[Tobril]

1 - Spell the difficulty in the LFM. Yes there is a setting to indicate what difficulty you want but it's not especially user friendly when checking LFMs. If people do not respect your selected difficulty tell them to find another group.

2 - Good luck with that cat herding.

3 - Bad mics tend to be an exception, I wouldn't bother stating anything about a mic int eh LFM.

[cdemeritt]

Well, always good to put up your own lfm... however, if you are going to lead a quest, it can be very helpful if you know the quest yourself... (if capable, run it solo a time or two first to get a feel for it...), If you don't know it, or don't know it well enough, make sure to put in "need guide". This will attract those willing to take it slow, and often scare off those the want to zerg it...

Now for your questions:
1. Putting the difficulty in comments will help... however there are those who just don't read LFMs. Can't tell you how many Barbarians apply to groups wanting sorcs or clerics...

2.If you put in the comments No Zerging, stick together, etc. etc. it is about as much as you can do to make it happen... if you are on your cleric, make it clear you are not chasing them to heal them... if they still run off, then don't heal them... they die, they die. (same if a caster or buffer, they run off before buffs, they don't need them, and if they complain, say something like "stay close if you want")

3. this one is all up to you... I often use mic, but if something seems off, and is important, I'll type it too... sometimes difficult to fight and type, but....

4. for your final comments, I can understand your point, but for many they have run the quests 1000X and to spend 20 minutes in Kobolds New Ringleader, for ransack and conquest, just isn't worth it... (considering it can be completed in 2 minutes or less) and it is important to remember that the loot from a single day in Amarath can be worth more than everything you gather from Lvl 1-10 combined, many with capped toons don't even bother with low level chests...

But pugs are always interesting... you get good ones, and not so good ones, and those who you wonder how they remember to breath...

[Bonulino]

if you are going to lead a quest, it can be very helpful if you know the quest yourself

I rarely try to lead quests that I don't already know.

for your final comments, I can understand your point, but for many they have run the quests 1000X

These are EXACTLY the people who I want to discourage from running with me. I don't object if someone wants to run through the quest as fast as possible to get the highest XP per minute, I just don't want them in my pug. What can I say in my LFM comments to encourage them to choose someone else's pug?

[zorander6]

I rarely try to lead quests that I don't already know.



These are EXACTLY the people who I want to discourage from running with me. I don't object if someone wants to run through the quest as fast as possible to get the highest XP per minute, I just don't want them in my pug. What can I say in my LFM comments to encourage them to choose someone else's pug?

"No zerg" usually works.

[JollySwagMan]

Although I usually wait to for someone else to put up an LFM for a dungeon I want to run and then join their group, I do sometimes put up my own LFM's. Up to now, I have been having a hard time getting groups together that match what I thought I had asked for in the LFM. I would like some advice in how to word the LFM's to maximize my chances of a fun group. Here are some questions I have:

1. Although the portion of the LFM that displays the quest name also shows what difficulty at which you will run it, I still always get people who ask to join and and then are unhappy with the difficulty I have chosen. I guess people just don't run the cursor over the quest name and check. If I always spell it out in words in the comments, will that solve the problem?

2. I try to attract people who will stick together and work together by putting in things like "team players only", "stick together" etc. It still seems like the majority of the people run off in all directions and do their own things. This is especially annoying when I am playing my Cleric toon, and have to try to hunt these people down when they need healing. What could I do differently to get people who will behave as a team instead of an uncoordinated mob.

3. Is it worth it to specify "no microphones" or "typing only"? Usually I prefer the voice chat, but if someone has a poor microphone, everything they say gets garbled. Generally, they do not want to switch to typing, and will keep repeating what they just said, even though it is every bit as garbled as the first time they said it.

Just a little more info on my toons and how I like to run dungeons: I have only 2 toons, a capped Barbarian and a level 5 Cleric. Neither is a TR and neither is uber. I like to go slow enough to enjoy a dungeon, kill every monster possible and get every scrap of loot possible. Especially on my Cleric, I want to be able to practice healing and buffing. This is hard to do if the team splits into 3 or 4 different groups or if they all run off at top speed. The last dungeon I ran in a pug with that toon she spent most of her time beating Kobolds with a mace and almost none of the time healing. There must be people out there who share my preferred playing style. How do I tap into them?

1. Aye definitely fit in the difficulty setting if you have room - not everyone knows or uses the quest/difficulty selection list when creating a party

2. Aye notes along the lines of 'Team Players', 'Stick Together', 'Dungeon Crawl' provide the right impression IMO for this style of group. Try and emphasise what type of players you're looking for, rather than alienating players with a hostile LFM.

3. Nothing wrong with 'no mics', some players don't use headsets/may be hearing impaired/have others in the room they play in/have children they don't want hearing the language that some players use. But if it's just a few garbled mics that you've had issue with, not really worth an LFM note in my view.

As for how to tap into this style: using the LFM panel, it's best to have low expectations :P

Have you tried looking into a guild with a dungeon-crawler ethos? In particular I would recommend the permadeath guilds as a great group of folks who look out for each other and play as a team, but I understand that PD is not for everyone. Depending on your server we may be able to recommend a guild that you click with.

[Kits]

These are EXACTLY the people who I want to discourage from running with me. I don't object if someone wants to run through the quest as fast as possible to get the highest XP per minute, I just don't want them in my pug. What can I say in my LFM comments to encourage them to choose someone else's pug?

You can say either "no zergers", team players only", or "work as a group (or team)". Any one of these statement will keep us **** zergers away.

[Callavan]

If you want to weed out the people who don't read LFMs, add "send tell" or "pst" to the description. Ignore the people who don't send a tell first and most of the folks you wind up with should be the ones that actually did read the LFM.

[Gorbadoc]

I try to attract people who will stick together and work together by putting in things like "team players only", "stick together" etc. It still seems like the majority of the people run off in all directions and do their own things. This is especially annoying when I am playing my Cleric toon, and have to try to hunt these people down when they need healing. What could I do differently to get people who will behave as a team instead of an uncoordinated mob.

Repeating what others have said:

• "No zerging" or even something fun like "We're on a mission of discovery!" or "I know we can make it if we take it slooow." in the comments should discourage zergers from joining.
• Mentioning the difficulty in the comments doesn't hurt.

Leadership
First, leading a party is like leading any other group of people. It's easier if you engage them as human beings. Be chatty when they first join. "Hey, how's it going?" and "Yeah, so I'm thinking we'll run this quest like <details>, what are your thoughts?" and "So, what is your <insert class> specced to do?". Chatting in general builds rapport; chatting about the quest helps clarify expectations; chatting about people's builds gives you a better idea what you can expect them to do.

I'll run a party differently depending on what I learn while chatting. If everyone seems on the ball, I just let the party run itself. If I get a feeling like everyone is an idiot, I'll narrate every step we take in the quest. If I find there's one competent person and four idiots, I'll lean on the competent person for leadership (e.g. "Take one person with you and hit the soul lock; I'll take the rest of the party to the door and cover your approach.").

You mentioned difficulty getting people to go along with your plan. People need to think you know what you're doing, so they can trust you. Even if the next room is relatively easy, say so; "So we're going to go in there and kill the monsters-- it shouldn't be hard, but if you get in trouble, retreat to this door". This kind of narrating has the added benefit of getting people in the habit of following what you say. This way, when you get to the boss fight and start discussing how to fight it, people's brains are already used to talking about tactics and following a plan.

Operant Conditioning
As a healing class, you actually have a huge advantage. You will get PUG members who are oblivious to just how much damage they're taking. Heck, I do it sometimes even now, if I have a really good healer on me. As the healer, you can practice operant conditioning to deal with these people!

Basically, if someone is taking too much damage, you leave them at half hit points. They'll tend to notice that they aren't full on hit points, so they'll play a bit more cautiously. That, or they'll keep playing poorly and die, and if indeed they are that stupid, you're probably better off without them as a liability.

You mentioned people running off. Be firm with the party. Say, "I'm going here", and if people choose to run away, you simply collect their soul stones later. Again, either they'll learn, or they weren't worth your spell points anyway.

As a rule of thumb, I'll throw someone a first Heal, no questions asked. Maybe they're away from the group and low on health because they took a calculated risk by trying to kill a caster quickly. Heck, maybe the risk paid off-- the caster died, so while they absorbed a bunch of attacks, it saved the party from a series of Flame Strikes and Blade Barriers.

I just keep count. If a person promptly needs another Heal, okay, they're playing too aggressively. They can stay at half health for a while. I pretend like my single-target healing has a target-specific cooldown timer, and while it's on cooldown, a person doesn't get anything more than a wand of Cure Moderate Wounds. If they want more healing, they can bunch up with the rest of the party for mass cure effects.

[Xionanx]

I like to on occasion put in song lyrics from the early 90's, 80's and 70's as anyone who recognizes said lyric and makes a comment on it has at least verified the ability to retain and apply knowledge, which is really all DDO requires.

Still, no matter what you put in your LFM you will get a decent portion of idiots because anyone who "knows" what they are doing is either:

A) Soloing
B) Running with a select group of friends
C) Started their own LFM (because they know better then to trust some scrub to kick out the baddies, they'll do it themselves)
D) Slumming it in your party - When I join someone else's LFM I expect it to be chock full of mental rejects and horrible players, and I prepare my mental state for such.

[Bodic]

I swear people have the "just show groups I am eligable for" set, and click the top one without even reading it.

In those types if the first or second words are:

Where, Share, or Ship.
They get /squelch xyz and /dismiss xyz.

[Gorbadoc]

I like to on occasion put in song lyrics from the early 90's, 80's and 70's as anyone who recognizes said lyric and makes a comment on it has at least verified the ability to retain and apply knowledge, which is really all DDO requires.

• "No zerging" or even something fun like "We're on a mission of discovery!" or "I know we can make it if we take it slooow." in the comments should discourage zergers from joining.

Aww, the song I quoted wasn't released until 2006.

[dmslasher]

I must say after playing for a while now that its so hard getting pol that match my play style that i have learned to just go with the flow of the group. Also i've played a cleric and know how tough it is if pol are just running off and i handel it like this i tell them i don't run fast and if you get too far ahead i cant heal you so if you too far ahead of me and you die its not my fault just given a backpack ride to the next shrine. I love when a group works together esp on elite but i usually just take what i cancer and let my knowledge and skills make up for other pol lack there of. Sobasicly just try to get what you want at first and if it don't work out just rememer that group andthink wellatleastits not as bad as" said group" and it will always keep you on the bright side and keep posting them lfms cuz the pol who like your play style will remeber you and join up.

Btw for give horrible typos
I posted this on my phone lol and it likes to replace words on me and other crazyness

[Nyxianne]

Like they said, no matter what you put up you are probably going to get people that aren't going to match what you want.
1) Lower lvl quests attract people that zerg, most people have done it before and figure that if they don't end up dying, they don't zerg A couple ways to screen that (which I'm sure others may have mentioned) is "no zergers" "newbie friendly" "stick together" Lfms to avoid because they usually indicate a fast run: "Know Quest" "BYOH" "Know your Role" "XP Farm" "quick run" "zerg" "TR XP farm" *note* TR and xp farmers aren't always fast
2) for the cat herding, after you've gotten everybody together just say this : I'm still a lil new to this toon, and so I need people to stick together a lil until I can get the hang of it (the people that don't like it will quit)
3) The bad mic thing, be blunt! say something like "I'm having a hard time hearing you, if you need something you'll have to type" or if you don't want to be that blunt just say something like "having speaker problems, will need to turn voice chat off, type if you need me" or just /squelch add _____

[az4a3l]

I might sound offensive but ill just say it, when setting a LFM u need to use the KISS standard (keep it simple stupid), i have 2 capped chars, i pug only, i get bored if i quest with the same folks over and over, i need randomnes.

Point one, N or NORM(Normal), HARD(Hard), E or ELIT some folk go for leet but i find it *cough* noobish, thats my opnion tho, in all my runs i never grouped on a LFM that uses leet(Elite) using a single character saves both space and look classy (remember KISS).

Point two a tough one but not imposible, i find that by setting TEAMWORK APRECIATED on caps helps a lot, also declining Monks and Barbies, i leave that up to u if u want to take those 2 classes that are not really helpful in teamwork, take them if they are known to u or already on friend list.

Point 3 is totally KISS, VOICE ONLY, is all u need, and boot if they dont talk to u, also boot if their mic is garbled, remember as leader u need to take decisions for 6 or 12 people, get used to boot folks who doesnt fill ur standards, doesnt mean u have to be trollish, its what a leader does wether u like it or not.

For ur last point, if u want to enjoy ur quests you might want to set on LFM FULL XP RUN or DOING ALL OPTS and also let them know when they join what ur plans are since ull be using voice chat, on a side note u might want to decline TRed players, ill leave that to u, since they need far more XP, they dont really care what ur plans are for ur LFM , they only need completion, note that there are exceptions but they are far and between, take TRed at lower lvs quests at ur discretion.

And finally USE CAPS FOR UR LFMs PEOPLE ARE LEMMINGS, GET USED TO IT, HOPE U HAVE A GOOD TIME PUGGING, i know i have. Also adding a bit of personality to ur lfms goes a long way.

[MRH]

Probably already know, but for those that don't...

3 lvl spread based on lvl of quest so whole party gets XP

ie.. Tempest Spine

lvl10 quest - 7-10 norm , 8-11 hard , 9-12 elite lfm lvl spreads

[Nyxianne]

1 problem with voice only groups I've had, is they tend to attract the talky talkers, the ones that want to discuss what flavor of pizza they had last night or how they came into this quest this one time and this other dude just was being horrible and oh hey, have you ever had trouble with doing coal chamber, oh and check this out, I've got one of these and and and and and .... You get the picture. Which is kinda nice in that silence is sometimes a lil boring, but on the other hand, your wanting to get info out to your party members. I like the ones that say MUST HEAR VOICE that means that a person can use a combination of text or verbal - and believe me, people that only use text are used to people not seeing their messages very fast (at least people on orien are). Because really, as a leader, yes people should be able to hear your voice, and sure if they are doing something that requires them to be at a lever in another room they should have voice, but other than that, what's wrong with using text.... especially those of us that are stuck with bad mics.

[TheBroken_JPK]

Trust me, competent zergers are steering clear of your group.

Your real questions is: How do I stop the clueless imbeciles from joining my group?

I've been working on that for almost 2 years. Good luck.