What is the calculation for the save DC of rune arm projectiles?

[Deathdefy]

"Opponents struck by a projectile receive a fortitude save for half damage" - Glorious Obscenity
"Opponents struck by a projectile receive a will save for half damage" - Tira's Splendour
"Opponents struck by a projectile receive a reflex save for half damage" - Khyber's Fury

1) It was news to me that they gave different types of saves until I checked it just then.

2) The point of this thread: I'd be incredibly grateful if someone could tell me definitively or make a logical guess as to what the DC calculation on these saves is?

3) It's worth noting that the rune arm efffects are all listed in the item description as 'Evocation' type spells... SF: Evocation would affect the saves then I'm guessing.

[Dandonk]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=55

"They use your Artificer level as their caster level and your Intelligence modifier - it's more or less as if you were casting a spell through the relic. The spells count as having a level equal to their charge tier plus one."

[Deathdefy]

Perfect. Much obliged Dandonk.

[Valakai]

Going with educated guess here:

The spell level is charge tier + 1. So at tier 3 would be 14 base + int modifier.

Metamagics dont affect them but sf evoc....no clue. Also evocation boosting items.

I'm curious as well and if someone does have better info please share.

EDIT: Slow. I blame Shroud lag.

[Ein]

I was testing the Rune Arm in the arena today. The DC of the Rune Arm changes as you use more charges. When you shoot 1 sharge the DC is lower than when charging 5 and taking a shoot. The Greater Evocation bracers did not increase the DC as far as I could see it. My Intelligence was 38 which gives me a bonus of +14. I was testing the Rune Arm with 4 charges as 5 charges would kill my test object. He was saving on a 34 and failing on 33. I have greater spell focus from feats. Even if that was added to the DC I come only to 31 DC (10+14+5+2). Not sure what else is used. I did not have the evocation bracers on.

[Tuney]

... Hmm what about the 'umd' abilties. They MIGHT be increasing the 'spell level' somehow as well.... I don't really know

[Jaid314]

I was testing the Rune Arm in the arena today. The DC of the Rune Arm changes as you use more charges. When you shoot 1 sharge the DC is lower than when charging 5 and taking a shoot. The Greater Evocation bracers did not increase the DC as far as I could see it. My Intelligence was 38 which gives me a bonus of +14. I was testing the Rune Arm with 4 charges as 5 charges would kill my test object. He was saving on a 34 and failing on 33. I have greater spell focus from feats. Even if that was added to the DC I come only to 31 DC (10+14+5+2). Not sure what else is used. I did not have the evocation bracers on.

sounds like it's WAI.

expected DC would be: 10 (base) + spell level (equal to charge level of the arm + 1 as i recall) + int modifier + bonuses.

so that would sound like 10 + 5 + 14 + 4 = 33

the greater evocation most likely was changing the save, but not updating your tooltip. did you test if it was modifying the saves by shooting your friend, or looking at the tooltip? (another possibility is that a favored soul was passing by, for example).

[Ein]

I have tested again today and without greater evocation bracers when I shoot 4 charges of lightning (+5 DC) and 38 INT (+14 DC) I should have a DC of 29. I have spell focus and greater spell focus which could explain another 2 DC. So I can explain DC 31 but why do the toons fail on another 3 DC higher? Maybee the UMD bonus for Items helps here

Artificer Knowledge - Arms and Armor (passive): Grants a +2 to UMD checks related to weapons, armor, and staves. Any activated abilities on weapons and armor ("clickies") used by the Artificer are cast at a +1 caster level. This caster level bonus increases by 1 at Artificer levels 8, 11, 14, and 17, and is capped by the Artificer's Intelligence Bonus.

This could explain the DC 34 if the spell focus feats dont add to the DC.

[cforce]

I did some testing today with my level 10 arti, who has a +9 INT bonus, and a Sorcerer past life for a potential +1 to Evocation DC's.

I did three different tests:

Chimera's Breath (max charge tier III) at full charge: 25 DC
Chimera's Breath at tier I charge: 23 DC
Flame Warden at tier I charge: 22 DC

So, it looks like rune arms with higher max charge tiers get an additional bonus, to the tune of +1 per addition *max* charge tier, independent from the actual spell level bonus?

So, the following looks like it would fit the numbers:

Rune Arms with...
Max Charge Tier III: extra +1
Max Charge Tier IV: extra +2
Max Charge Tier V: extra +3

...and also with evocation feats counting. This would lead me to:

Chimera's Breath (max charge tier III) at full charge: 10 + 4 (level) + 9 (int) + 1 (past life) + 1 (max tier bonus) = 25 DC
Chimera's Breath at tier I charge: 10 + 2 (level) + 9 (int) + 1 (past life) + 1 (max tier bonus) = 23 DC
Flame Warden at tier I charge: 10 + 2 (level) + 9 (int) + 1 (past life) = 22 DC

Then Ein's case (assuming he's using one of the max charge tier V rune arms) becomes:

10 + 5 (level) + 14 (int) + 2 (feats) + 3 (max tier bonus) = 34 DC

I'm kinda surprised that evocation feats would affect the DC and evocation items would not, though. Possible bug? I'll have to test this out with an Evocation item myself at some point, just to satisfy my curiosity.

[Andrash]

I have tested Titan's Fist max tier IV.
My cleric had +22 will, i was constantly watching the other monitor for the will saves (made at 1d20+22 on the cleric).
My artificer was a wizard once, now with the past life II feat (you know arcane initiate.) Also had greater evocation focus. The INT score was 28 (+9 mod).
The cleric made a lot of saves obviously. luckily i was able to get close look on the dc. A maximum-charged Titan's fist saving throw was failed at 4+22 but successful at 5+22. Thus this leads me to say the dc was 27 at max charge (4 projectiles.)
How would that number come from, because what you all say about the DC doesnt fit this. Ofc you played in november, i tested on 2012 june 6th.

10+9 (int mod) +3 (greater evoc and past life:AI) and +5 (do you remember about the line? maximum charge tier plus 1?-devs said it).
So it either got fixed or works differently for each rune arms. I am also curios as to when they're gonna fix the int on titan. the +6 int would make it a handy rune arm.