Un-Nerf Combat Tactics (Trip, Stun, Sunder, etc)

[NytCrawlr]

I also think that NO mobs should be immune to any of them because of the color of their name. Just because a mob is a purple name should not mean that they cant be tripped, they should have a save against it, but there is no reason that a Barb with 100 str cant knock over a red named elf.

Definitely in agreement here as well. Obviously if they have four legs, are bigger than you, etc., they should have a higher DC save, but they shouldn't be flat out immune.

[Asketes]

I also think landing a stunning blow with a BLUNT item should be able to kill any normal-sized non-named skeleton-type

[Shade]

I also think landing a stunning blow with a BLUNT item should be able to kill any normal-sized non-named skeleton-type

Nice idea..

Really hope this gets attention soonish.. Number one pet peeve lately.

If this happens the recently improved sunder change may actaully get peopel to take the feat. If it doesn't who cares as it would be too slow and cumbersome to use.

[licho]

/signed

I have not real problem with longer animacions or no offhand chance to stun, but...
The range needs to be reworked.
Especcially stun is in poor state since this punch attack seems to have the shortest range of all.
They can even keep the animacion but increase the hit zone.

[Jay203]

takes a bit of practice, but i believe i got to the point where i can actually make it connect over 75% of the time

[Jay203]

I also think landing a stunning blow with a BLUNT item should be able to kill any normal-sized non-named skeleton-type

Slicing Blow does Limb Chopper effect on vorpal strike?

[Jahmin]

• - Monks: Not sure but somehow the monks got away clean on this one I think.. Doesn't make any sense. Monks are not mean to be the masters of say Sunder and get double the chance to land it and double the damage.

While your overall premise is correct, this is false. Monks were nerfed just as bad as everyone else

[Zerkul]

I had a Kensai TWF with 3 Fighter Pastlives with maxed stun enhancements line HOrc with max strength (only thing missed was +4 str tome and completionst feat, +2 stun DC) but i had very hard time stunning things after the raise of the epic mobs saves in conjuction with the nerf of stun animation: epic mobs fortitude saves went up and at same time odds of landing stun decreased due to single stun animation (before stun could land twice if TWFing, 80% proc). Even with stunning hammer in secondary hand, mobs could save often (not very often though) except of course for orange nameds in ecrono whose fortitude save even with 50+DC stun seems to be strong.

[Havok.cry]

As a caster I would really like my meatshield fleshbags to bring their OWN cc so I can get back to nuking and/or piking. So please turbine fix those feats for them.

[Jaid314]

Definitely in agreement here as well. Obviously if they have four legs, are bigger than you, etc., they should have a higher DC save, but they shouldn't be flat out immune.

this is done for the same reason that pretty much all arcane CC doesn't work on red/purple names.

wouldn't be much challenge if you could just stun-lock the raid boss and /win.

in pen and paper, the DM can supply sufficient brains to (hopefully) provide a challenge without giving blanket immunities. in a video game, you're limited by the brains the AI can provide... and if you've ever brought a hireling with you to any quest, you should have a pretty good idea of how limited the artificial stupidity is.

[budalic]

I think fail-on-1 save mechanic is most limiting thing here.

I mean, if entire raid party spams their cc ability, boss has to roll 1 sooner or later, even if it had 100+ of saves, right?

[Beeeeeaner]

/signed especially if your a smaller race its even worse. Both pvp and pve are messed up because of it. I am doing an attack anyways with my weapon so its not my feet that are doing the damage, so no use having it in there as such. I am liking the whole hook idea with a weapon tho if they would change it to something.

[Skavenaps]

I think fail-on-1 save mechanic is most limiting thing here.

I mean, if entire raid party spams their cc ability, boss has to roll 1 sooner or later, even if it had 100+ of saves, right?

Yep, bosses should never be CC (debuff with a limit yes, like sunder armor).

I like the animations tbh from the CC feats. If i want to trip something, its to see your character is trying to do.

[Monkey_Archer]

While your overall premise is correct, this is false. Monks were nerfed just as bad as everyone else

This.

Monks did get to keep offhand procs on SOME of their combat feats, but still suffer the same targeting/range issues with trip/stunning fist. Also, since unarmed attacking is naturally faster then other styles they actually suffer more then other styles due to the slow animations. The problem is even worse on haste boosted splash monks... using trip while haste boosted takes nearly as long as 2 full attack animations, so even with the offhand proc you're still loosing just as much, if not more dps then a regular TWF/THF does without the offhand/glancing blow proc.

Of all the new combat animations for any weapon style, the worst by far is unarmed great cleave. It does not get offhand procs the animation is over 1 second long and the collision detection timing is terrible.

[Monkey_Archer]

On the more positive side of the combat changes, I very much like the function/timing of unarmed sunder/stunning blow (uses the quivering palm animation). Being semi-long range (for a monk), forward directional and good timing on collision detection makes it very easy to land, even when moving or vs moving targets.

I would like to see all combat animations changed to function like that: forward directional, semi long range, good collision detection timing. (regardless of what the actual animation looks like)

[waterboytkd]

Same here, I actually think the way it worked before was probably too much, but that might be old PnP thinking kicking in again.

Too much? Nah. They could make it seamlessly fit into your attack routine (no special animations), get all the corresponding procs (THF glancing blows, TWF offhand procs, doublestrike procs), and do full melee damage on the hit in addition to the normal effects of the feats, and it might make melees not look so gimpy in the presence of a caster. Might.

Actually, this would help a lot in the end game balancing of casters vs. melee, as trips and stuns are damage mitigation through avoidance (caster analogue: not letting mobs close to melee, and using ranged spells to take them out). At least, it'd make using these attacks, and taking the Improved feats, worthwhile.

The way I see it, melees need all the help they can get in special maneuvers. Right now, a lot of melees are just hold left mouse button and hope for the best. The reason? Because doing anything else is too substantial of a dps loss. By making maneuvers that don't hit you dps-wise in any way, they would help bridge the melee-caster gap, as most melees would start actually attempting to use those feats. Also, maybe changing the DCs on em a bit (maybe 10 + 1/2 level + Str [or dex, if you have weapon finesse]) would make more people use em.

[Templarion]

Guys, roll a caster. Time of melees is over.





Also /signed

[.Revenga.]

/signed

nice ideas in here

[QuantumFX]

Monks: Not sure but somehow the monks got away clean on this one I think.. Doesn't make any sense. Monks are not mean to be the masters of say Sunder and get double the chance to land it and double the damage.

It’s to make up for the fact that they have absolutely no enhancement chains and no weapons to buff their special attacks like Eagle Claw and Unbalancing Strike.

[dennison_brillo]

I think it all comes down to timing. for me I was worse before the change and now they work more often for me. Idk lol