Horc/Kopesh or Dwarf/Dwarven waraxe?

[MoonRunner]

Mostly I am just posting these so I can compair them side by side better however feel free to leave thoughts.

The main idea behind this build is to builf a TWF brute that by doing an enhancement reset could do some tanking. The only differance is Horc and Dwarf with the horc going with a set of kopeshes and the Dwarf using Dwarven War axes and using the extr feat for TWB.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

ThrasFighTR 
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 464
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    28
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         18                    22
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    13
Bluff                -2                     2
Concentration         4                     9
Diplomacy            -2                     2
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            0                    25
Jump                  4                    10
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     2
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  4                     9
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Kensei Dwarven Waraxe Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Defense

and the Horc

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
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ThrasFighTR 
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 404
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 9
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             20                    32
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     5
Bluff                -2                     2
Concentration         3                     7
Diplomacy            -2                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            0                    21
Jump                  5                    11
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  5                    11
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting II
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II

[R0cksteady]

Kopesh is always better than DAxe, even for a Dwarf. But Axes are still nice, and we have enough Kopesh users running around.

Also, drop Power Critical. It's a completely useless feat to a fighter. You will always confirm your criticals, the geat is doing nothing.

[TheDearLeader]

I'll take what R0cksteady said one further.

Drop Power Critical, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and TWDefense.

Your to-hit doesn't need Spring Attack, and your crits don't need Power Critical.

Your AC will either work, or it won't. Dodge + TWD aren't going to be that breaking point.

Toughnesses/Stunning Blow/Sap... plenty of better combat oriented feats out there.

Regarding Races/Weapons : Could always go Dwarf, DA Kensei, and still pick up EWP:Khopesh. Since I just 86ed 5 useless feats, you have the space.

[Alternative]

Don't go lawful good if you don't have to. True neutral or chaotic neutral (chaosblades) are better options.

[Ungood]

I'll go with what most of the others have said.

However, even since you just gained 4 feats, you can try to have some versatility fun and duo the line and take THF/ITHF/GTHF as opposed to Mobility, Dodge, Spring Attack, or swap TWD for Improved Critical Blunt, because some days, hitting it with a Hammer, is just fun!.

Just giving ya ideas.

[testing1234]

on a fighter looking at the numbers id normally recommend a khopesh since they have the feat to spare without losing a good feat.

khopesh even got a hidden boost with cannith crafting on bosses since base damage was very high on GS dwarvenA compared to Khop with cannith this has closed while the add on damage have increased same on both weapons leading to khopesh gaining a even bigger lead on critiable enemies and making them very close to tied on crit immune.
point im trying to make is turbine is showing no signs they are intending to bring down the nerfbat on khops anytime soon quite the opposite but like always you take your chances when you go for the most powerful choice right now.

like all the others said. mobility, spring attack,dodge and power critical are just very bad feats.
spring attack has some small use but power critical is just bad allaround no build should even take this.
id suggest you take stunning blow, quick draw both of these feats fits fighter like a glove and make playing more fun and add tactical and pure % increase in dps.

"edited for spelling and reading easy

[MoonRunner]

Ok thats some good info. Will definately drop power crit, mobility and spring attack and likely 2WD. I think I will keep the Dodge as it is required for Defenders Pre and is helpfull always vs some shield feats only helpfull when tanking or turtled up. Even though I may take some shield mastery for the DR when tanking. I don't think I have ever seen SAP discussed. Is it really something people take? I guess I will go reread it, it just didn't look too hot to me.

Do you think I could afford to cheat the STR by one on the dwarf build to get the INT to take combat mastery? If I go 17 STR that gives me 3 points to put in INT bumping it to 11 and the tome, I beleive 13 is the pre for combat mastery. Would I hate myself for not maxing str?

I see no point in making this build if it cant tank. Unfortunately tanking is needed in so few quests this is why I want the versatility to be able to go kensie. In his current life Thras is getting the job done tanking VoD. He still needs some AC and or DR gear to do ToD and he is a cha based build pre U9 so not a hate generator and DPS is sub par. I think this build has every bit as much AC potential as his current life, I'll have to look at that but it Thrasiuus' current life he is right there at the point where 1 extra ac could make a differance, so if I can find 5 or 6 more ac in the buiild...

Ok it looks like I got a little more playing with the numbers to do here.

[Balkas]

What level are you now?

Are you planning on TRing your current character?

You may as well build one Stalwart Defender and one Kensei if that is the case.

If you just want one character, it might make more sense to take THF feats and Kensei Spec in GAxes, then use a Dwarven Axe and Shield when you're a Stalwart Defender.

Dwarven Axes get glancing blows that are increased by the THF feats when wielded with a shield.

[eulogy098]

Fighters have enough feats that spending one on khopesh isnt a penalty. For other classes the Dwarf with Dwarven Axes makes sense (big fan of it on Barbs) but for Fighter, go ahead and exploit the absurdly poorly balanced khopesh.

[MoonRunner]

I have too many toons. My Clonk is mid TR. This toon is lvl 20 so could TR when I am ready but I am really more in the planning stages deciding if I want to start collecting dwarven axes ATM. I actually have another toon I will probably TR before Thras since he is currently doing my Haggle duties now, and I dont want to loose a haggle toon till I have his replacement. That toon will be a Pure rogue TWF Kopesh sploiter. I also have a barbarian Drarf TWF built for pure DPS so that is why I want this to be my tank, I just want to be able to be able to change to a little higher DPS mode if I dont think I will be tanking for the next few days.

In all honesty I think I have found a TWF Pally/fighter combo I like by taking what I feel were the strong point of the OP builds and putting them into the builder I got this.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

TRass 
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 422
Spell Points: 205 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 13
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    26
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              7                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I

He has better saves and his AC is 18 VS the 14 I get when I run the fighter builds as defenders. I came up with 2 extra ac for the fighter because of armor mastery and the way the reflex bonus will calculate in here but either way 14 AC is what his current build has and I am sitting at about 63 unbuffed AC and this is without combat expertise. Yea I don't see a problem getting the pally to 75 AC unbuffed with a small tweak to my DT armor and gear I already have. Of coarse the fighter build will have the highest AC of all if a pally with balwark aura maxed is close by. Still I think I like this build better because of the ability for very high AC even though I do seem to have slightly less HP.


Well this should have been at the top of this responce but oh well, I'm not risking fitting it in were it goes but here is the fighter build I came up with from your replies and am now torn between it and the pally/fighter xploit. Thoughts?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

ThrasFighTR 
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 464
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 9
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    27
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         18                    22
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization II


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery

[kartos]

if your goind as a 34 pointer why not this build?

Dwarf 20 fighter

STR 18
DEX 11
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 10
CHA 10

(WIS at 10 so you won't have any penalty stats you can put these 2 point wherever you want)

all level ups to STR and take the THF feats as they work on DA in S&B mode and take feats that seem appropriate to you but essentially THF line (3 feats),IC,CE,PA,toughness,all kensai related feats (weapon focus and specialization 5 feats),SM,ISM,SB(?),dodge that's 16 feats and you still got room for 1 extra