"Wrong Race"???

[Solidsteak]

Hello, I've been playing for a while and currently I'm playing my horc sorc (love saying that) yet for some reason I keep getting tells from people telling me that my char is "gimp" and that I should reroll, I don't really feel like wasting the money I spent on buying half-orcs so I'm asking you guys, why does race matter so much? should I not be judged on my ability to play and not by what choices I made when I made MY character?

[wigthemaster]

people are just saying that because horcs get -2 cha (your casting stat = -1 dc) for +2 str (useless on a caster)

where as Warforged (same -2 cha, but +2 con= 20 more hp) also get self repairing.

~wig

[Culver.Civello]

Horcs don't make great Sorcerers compared to other races, but people are all about OPTIMAL and MIN/MAX, instead of playing the game just to have fun. I personally wouldn't roll a Horc Sorc, but I don't see anything wrong with you doing it if that is what you want. There are plenty of people who build 'Optimal' builds and they just are not good at using them, where are those with weird builds may be absolutely devastating, because they know what they are doing. Bwhaha... for the life of me, I can't can't get my WF caster to do anything right XD It is just not my style of play. I suck at playing casters period, but watch me on my Healers or Mellee and you'd think I'd been playing this game since beta. Sure, your probably going to get those groups that don't want you because your a Horc caster, but chances are, you won't want to play with them anyways.... Your better off finding some more like-minded players.

[Gkar]

Hello, I've been playing for a while and currently I'm playing my horc sorc (love saying that) yet for some reason I keep getting tells from people telling me that my char is "gimp" and that I should reroll, I don't really feel like wasting the money I spent on buying half-orcs so I'm asking you guys, why does race matter so much? should I not be judged on my ability to play and not by what choices I made when I made MY character?

Yeah, wig has it right. You pretty much picked the worse race possible for your sorc unless you are completely a melee sorc, then you have it right.

Best races for sorc (in somewhat debatable order):

WF (more HP, self healng, -2 penalty to CHR)
Human (more HP, free feat, extra skill points, 2nd highest CHR score in the game)
Drow (less HP, highest possible CHR score)
Half elf (more HP, tied for 2nd highest CHR score in the game, free "dili" feat to let you boost something else)


Anything else is a weak substitute, and Horc is the worst possible choice, just down sides, no up side for sorc.

On the other hand Horc is arguably THE best choice for any melee class except pali.

And you are being judged by your ability to play. You made an obvious poor choice that shows lack of knowledge of the game, that's gameplay to judge you on.

If you like the flavor of the horc knowing its a bad choice, that's fine, play it, but you will be judged for the choice you made.

[bobbert22193]

Race doesn't matter so much except to those min/maxers out there and the wannabees. As long as YOU are having fun with the character it doesn't matter what race it is. Each race has its own inherent strengths and weakness to it but like I said it only matters to YOU.

With that said though and depending on your server you may get excluded from raids such as the shroud by those that HAVE to myddo all their applicants for a normal run, and I for one don't want to group with these people anyways, and you might not want to either so it saves you the time.

[Truga]

Wrong race? No.

Bad race? Not really that bad, no.

Good race though? Most certainly not. :P

(there is only one good race in DDO anyway, and it's not really a race)

[Lyzern]

Yeah, the 2 Cha hurts, but if you like Horc Sorc, don't let trolls tell you otherwise, play whatever you want.

[Ngha]

If you can level it to 20, and TR it. Forget them. You're playing your toons, not them, play what you want.

Even if you don't plan on leveling to 20, true casual players can play whatever they want, personally I pug a LOT, just so I don't have to deal with people like the ones you're getting tells from.

Sometimes though, this results in no healer Raids... which hurts alot.

However, having fun playing a GAME cannot be beaten.

[altrocks]

Yeah, wig has it right. You pretty much picked the worse race possible for your sorc unless you are completely a melee sorc, then you have it right.

Best races for sorc (in somewhat debatable order):

WF (more HP, self healng, -2 penalty to CHR)
Human (more HP, free feat, extra skill points, 2nd highest CHR score in the game)
Drow (less HP, highest possible CHR score)
Half elf (more HP, tied for 2nd highest CHR score in the game, free "dili" feat to let you boost something else)

Debatable indeed!

Personally, I see Helves and Humans as the top choices. Everyone always says "But WF can heal themselves! and +CON!!!!" But they forget that with a human sorc, even on a first life 32 point build, you can easily get UMD to a point where heal scrolls are at 90%+ for you. That's some real self-healing there! Helves are even better if you take the FvS Dilletante and spend some AP on it, because then you get all the divine scrolls/wands up to level 10 at 100% no matter what your UMD score is (though, really, what else are you gonna put skill points into? Balance?) And both of these choices offer no penalty to CON or CHA so you can max them both, even on a 32 point toon and start with 18's.

This leaves WF and Drow as second-rate choices for me. WF immunities don't matter much to me, but the fact that you can't wear robes does (which is most of the current caster armor, only a few good docents out there and most of them are VERY recent additions). The additional CON can be useful, but really it doen't give you THAT much more survivability than Human or Helf. Drow on the other hand take too much of an HP/CON hit, and with Savant Tier III abilities having their DC based on CON, this just spoils it for me. I know they're not super useful, but really it's nice for it to work when you do use it.

Horc is right out, though.

[justhavinfun]

Only thing I would ask is are you playing to have fun or to make everyone else happy? I tend to get tired of the attitudes people have that their way is the only way. People need to stop and remember that this is only a game and that most people play to have fun.

You may have some problems grouping due to these attitudes. I would try to get in a group or guild that is here to have fun and not treat DDO like a job instead of a game. I personally could care less what your build is. I never look at MyDDO when filling a group. You request to join and I need your class you will most likely get accepted. As long as you can do what your class is supposed to do we will get along fine.

[Vellrad]

Race is secondary choice in DDO. I remember people declining my dwarven wiz from pugs, cos its not optimal in their opinion. You orc will get -1 DCs and -(9+lvl)SP/level, and -3+lvl skillpotions, but theese are not huge modifers. You will be a little weaker than sorc of other races, but if your skills and playtyle will be good, you will be above the masses.

[Truga]

But they forget that with a human sorc, even on a first life 32 point build, you can easily get UMD to a point where heal scrolls are at 90%+ for you. That's some real self-healing there!

There's a slight difference between "some real self-healing there!" self-healing and "You guys can go take down sulu. And please, try to finish before horoth dies" self-healing though. :P

[pHo3nix]

Debatable indeed!

Personally, I see Helves and Humans as the top choices. Everyone always says "But WF can heal themselves! and +CON!!!!" But they forget that with a human sorc, even on a first life 32 point build, you can easily get UMD to a point where heal scrolls are at 90%+ for you. That's some real self-healing there! Helves are even better if you take the FvS Dilletante and spend some AP on it, because then you get all the divine scrolls/wands up to level 10 at 100% no matter what your UMD score is (though, really, what else are you gonna put skill points into? Balance?) And both of these choices offer no penalty to CON or CHA so you can max them both, even on a 32 point toon and start with 18's.

This leaves WF and Drow as second-rate choices for me. WF immunities don't matter much to me, but the fact that you can't wear robes does (which is most of the current caster armor, only a few good docents out there and most of them are VERY recent additions). The additional CON can be useful, but really it doen't give you THAT much more survivability than Human or Helf. Drow on the other hand take too much of an HP/CON hit, and with Savant Tier III abilities having their DC based on CON, this just spoils it for me. I know they're not super useful, but really it's nice for it to work when you do use it.

Horc is right out, though.

Last i checked there wasn't a robe of defiance
Oh, and quicken reconstruct>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>heal scrolls

[stoerm]

should I not be judged on my ability to play and not by what choices I made when I made MY character?

Unfortunately many people will judge your character. It's a team game and if somebody can't pull their weight or causes problems, others in the group will probably react negatively. I confess to having looked somebody up on myddo after they performed badly, and it turned out they had a horrible character build.

It's possible to have a passable character with any class/race combination, but some combos have better synergies than others. What you have is considered a "flavour build", i.e. you've chosen the combo based on coolness rather than power. I'd also ask what stats you've chosen - is it really just the race they are focusing on? For example if you've got a very low charisma and/or constitution, then it's not the race that's the problem.

[Bodic]

Debatable indeed!


This leaves WF and Drow as second-rate choices for me. WF immunities don't matter much to me, but the fact that you can't wear robes does

And the Blue Dragon Scale docent really doesnt care.

Edit: Horc Sorc for most poeple will call it odd adn off putting yes its more of an RP standpoint Though If I had teh desire to roll a Horc Which I dont. I would probably make it a Melee Sorc.

[Truga]

It's possible to have a passable character with any class/race combination, but some combos have better synergies than others. What you have is considered a "flavour build", i.e. you've chosen the combo based on coolness rather than power. I'd also ask what stats you've chosen - is it really just the race they are focusing on? For example if you've got a very low charisma and/or constitution, then it's not the race that's the problem.

Pretty much this. I have a thing for robots, so since I bought WF, all my characters are WF. The only one I still play and isn't a WF is getting TR'd into one sometime this month. I know a halfling or drow would probably be better but...

I even have a plan for a pure WF cleric... :P

[Rasczak]

Play whatever you want. That being said if you responsible to play what you want then you are hopefully sensible enough to realise that when joining someone else's group, they will either want an "optimal" looking build or won't care. While you may consider yourself to play well, a stranger to you will not know and past experience dictates rather be safe than sorry.

So play what you like (and I mean that sincerely), but expect to be declined if you ever want to join a PuG run and don't take it to heart. Play what you like but accept and expect consequences.

[Solidsteak]

Thank you for all the replies, just so you know i've got 17 cha base at lvl 6, that is bumped up to 20 with some buffs and a lvl 10 con base.
Also I play this character for fun and not really for whats best, I've had enough elitism in WoW...

[Truga]

Thank you for all the replies, just so you know i've got 17 cha base at lvl 6, that is bumped up to 20 with some buffs and a lvl 10 con base.
Also I play this character for fun and not really for whats best, I've had enough elitism in WoW...

But I thought stats in wow were static, depending only on class?

[Sirea]

I remember people declining my dwarven wiz from pugs, cos its not optimal in their opinion.

I think I let you in one of my parties recently. I didn't even notice you were a dwarf until you were standing right in front of me, and even then all I thought was "hmm, a dwarven wizard, you don't see those every day."

Regarding the OP, no, H-orc isn't optimal for the "normal" sorc build, but meh. Personally I'd still let you in my group and see how you performed. Playstyle and player competence usually means more to me than a strange build.