evasion + wraith wizard + shield = tank?

[chodelord]

has anyone tried this build?

2 rogue (or 2 monk)+ 18 wizard PM

wraith form, shield mastery, insightful reflexes

incorporeal 25% miss chance, 50% displacement miss chance, evasion w/ insightful reflex and 20% damage reduction to everything from shield mastery

with rogue you gain trap skills, umd and intim
with monk you get 2 free feats, and either 5 hp from hound path or 2 stacking elemental resists from monkey path

---------------

you lose

capstone = 1 dc and metamagic efficiencies
2 feats = insightful reflex and shield mastery
lich form = 1dc for all spells and another 1dc for necro spells

[Impaqt]

How do you plan on holding aggro? DOT the mob up? Also have to worry about ASF fromn using shields.

And of course, healing could be an issue as well...

[butlerfamilywa]

How do you plan on holding aggro? DOT the mob up? Also have to worry about ASF fromn using shields.

And of course, healing could be an issue as well...

be an elf, mithril twilight tower shield = no ASF.. healing, well he's a PM, juts pop an aura... holding agro.. now thats the question.

[Bardgellor]

Your monk feats are very limited. The only feat I see on the list that would be useful to you is toughness. Neither IR or shield mastery are martial feats. Thus the benefits of splashing monk is reduced unless you want to take melee focused feats such as PA, TWF or THF.

The natural synergy with wiz/rogue is more attractive IMO. You can be a fully functional trapper with only one rogue level on a wizard.

[chodelord]

actually I didn't think my cunning plan all the way through but it still has potential

it would have to be a large shield not tower, because there are no tower shields that lower the ASF to a reasonable level. Still that is 15% damage resistance vs 20% so that isn't a big deal. And lnd is a really good shield.

as for holding aggro when you have a shield and you pop intim you get a 100% threat boost for 10 seconds. start up your dots, pop intim then blow mana on nukes then block for a few seconds and that should be enough hate to get through to the next initm cooldown

as for healing hopefully you wouldn't need too much with such powerful mitigation abilities but if you do need outside healing I don't think asking a cleric to pack harm and inflict critical is a big deal

[nat_1]

I've been thinking about this as well, usually when I pull aggro off of someone with a caster.

My questions are:

Does the shield hate work off of spell damage?

Evasion works with a shield as long as you're not encumbered, yes? Or is it the "Only wearing light armor" part that applies, as in not wearing a shield?

The holes in the plan I see are:

Purple names (and others?) have true seeing, right? Wouldn't that mean that the wraith and displacement are ineffective?

The big thing that keeps me from trying this is the hit die. d12/d10 per level v. d4 per level. Just not enough meat on dem bones IMO.

[Illiain]

as for healing hopefully you wouldn't need too much with such powerful mitigation abilities but if you do need outside healing I don't think asking a cleric to pack harm and inflict critical is a big deal

It's not if you announce you're the tank and they need Harm before you enter so they can swap spells. One issue with the cause/harm spells is they're primarily damage spells, therefore they require you to be facing the target, even when used as healing. Regular healing spells can be cast at anyone at any direct as long as they're not blocked.

This is why so few PMs ever get healed by the healers. We're focused on the melee and are essentially blocked by our limited 90 degree arc of sight.

[Phidius]

...
you lose

capstone = 1 dc and metamagic efficiencies
2 feats = insightful reflex and shield mastery
lich form = 1dc for all spells and another 1dc for necro spells

Why would you lose lich form? Not enough feats for Toughness + SF:Necro + GSF:Necro?

[Enoach]

...
Purple names (and others?) have true seeing, right? Wouldn't that mean that the wraith and displacement are ineffective?

The big thing that keeps me from trying this is the hit die. d12/d10 per level v. d4 per level. Just not enough meat on dem bones IMO.

True seeing will midigate the Displacement. However, Bosses are not equiping Ghost Touch {yet}

As for HP - I just recently Reconstructed a WF Sorcerer that Tanked SULU in VoD.

[stille_nacht]

for tanking id really recommend doing the whole WF sorc thing, that way you can recon and still recieve other heals.

[nat_1]

True seeing will midigate the Displacement. However, Bosses are not equiping Ghost Touch {yet}

As for HP - I just recently Reconstructed a WF Sorcerer that Tanked SULU in VoD.

Thanks for the info, things like this are why I come here.

[Failedlegend]

I think people are being too harsh on the OP it's actually a VERY plausible idea. I'd definitely go with rogue though if only so you can max UMD (having OL is nice too) other than toughness the feats in the Monk list are relatively useless to this build. Anyways a couple notes to both the OP and the naysayers.

You don't actually "lose" lich form as you would only be in wraith stance if your actually tanking otherwise you'd probably be in lich.

A Mithral heavy Shield only has 15% ASF which is easily dealt with either through enhancements, crafting or an item like seven fingered gloves.

Shield Mastery requires Shield Proficiency (General)

Evasion works perfectly fine with shields.

You can have both the Auras running at the same time.

D4 HD is a bit of an issue but its easily mitigated my equipment and the auras. On my badly built Wizard/Rogue with 12 starting con and very few hp items (don't even have Minos) I have 300hp a 14-16 con Wiz/Rog with good hp stuff could easily break 500.

If your going into a quest as a tank the cleric can easily swap to Harm and lately I find alot of clerics healing (....errr harming?) me in form (don't ask them to but I notice they do)

As for holding aggro its really not that hard...when I'm playing my S&B tank(He uses a 2-Hander when hes not tanking) my biggest problems with keeping aggro are casters wizard or otherwise because of the sheer amount of DoTs/AOEs they can put out...I'd say the best Element to spec would be Acid with a side of Ice.

Oh also Wraith form gives +20 Balance which is awesome

Here's what I'm planning for the TR of my Wiz/Rog and could easily be converted to a 32pt build.

It's not 100% set in stone but it gives a general idea.

Note: Cha raised mostly for Pally Dilly (the extra UMD is nice though) otherwise its unneeded and a 32pt. could dump it in favor of 18Con/18Int.

True Neutral Half Elf Wizard18/Rogue2 "Palemaster" (Rogue Taken at 1 & 11)

Stats (34pt)

Str 10
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 8
Cha 14

Feats (In a rough order)


Regular

1 Shield Prof:General
3 Shield Mastery
6 Toughness
9 Insightful Reflexes
12 Heighten
15 GSF: Necro
18 Quicken

Wiz

2 Extend
6 SF:Necro
12 Mental Toughness
17 Maximize

Half-Elf

1 Pally Dilly

Skills

Max: Concentration/UMD/Intimidate/Balance (Half-Ranks in Balance until +2 int tome)
Rogue Levels add: OL and w/e

[maddmatt70]

How do you plan on holding aggro? DOT the mob up? Also have to worry about ASF fromn using shields.

And of course, healing could be an issue as well...

This is really funny that you bring this up, but we have started having wizards and sorcs tank sulu in Tower in varying difficulties from elite to normal using nothing but DOTS primarily with a few SLAs thrown in. On normal and hard a wizard or sorc can self heal really. On elite they need another caster to watch over them. It is pretty easy for them to retain aggro which speaks to just how much dps spellcasters do in update 9. Its great because it is a pretty efficient usage of party personnel since melees often require a healer or babysitter.

I actually anticipate alot of wizard and sorceror tank builds coming out soon. Really just have some gear like the torque, concord opposition, good hit points and a shield with decent dr and perhaps a misschance/evasion/saves. The OPs overall concept looks good although we general use Warforge spellcasters to tank so not sure how a palemaster works, but probably similiar.

[maddmatt70]

One more thing OP you need at least mid 500 hit points for Horoth so I would lean toward human with 2monk for the extra feats so if necessary you can get multipe toughness feats. Intimidate is kind of nice, but that is not how your are going to tank and umd is not very useful although rogue trap skills would be nice. Tank with dots.

Edit: if you did take two rogue levels you could take the hamstring feat which would be awesome for boss tanking. Play around with the feats you need and the hit points.

[voodoogroves]

This is really funny that you bring this up, but we have started having wizards and sorcs tank sulu in Tower in varying difficulties from elite to normal using nothing but DOTS primarily with a few SLAs thrown in. On normal and hard a wizard or sorc can self heal really. On elite they need another caster to watch over them. It is pretty easy for them to retain aggro which speaks to just how much dps spellcasters do in update 9. Its great because it is a pretty efficient usage of party personnel since melees often require a healer or babysitter.

I actually anticipate alot of wizard and sorceror tank builds coming out soon. Really just have some gear like the torque, concord opposition, good hit points and a shield with decent dr and perhaps a misschance/evasion/saves. The OPs overall concept looks good although we general use Warforge spellcasters to tank so not sure how a palemaster works, but probably similiar.

I TR'd my Tukaw-ish into a completely different build (FVS) but as I was leveling it I put together a plan for a sorc tank that I may, one day, decide to implement. It wasn't worth it to me to LR, but I've got it saved for a later date.

The trade-offs are that the WF non-PM can (a) be more easily healed by other party members (b) can use more than a single personal healing spell (recon, repair serious, repair critical, whatever) ... a PM has (a) the auras, including the benefit of other's auras (b) could be harmed, but few divines carr it (c) can be any race ... but only has the one burst heal

[jillie]

The best shield for this is the Skyvault Shield (drops in Reaver's Fate raid): http://ddowiki.com/page/Skyvault_Shield

No ASF at all!

[bradleyforrest]

You can always craft a Mithril shield with Greater Twilight on it. That should help mitigate any ASF.

[Trillea]

You can always craft a Mithril shield with Greater Twilight on it. That should help mitigate any ASF.

I believe crafting Twilight and Greater Twilight are bugged to be armor-only, unless they fixed it.

[bradleyforrest]

I believe crafting Twilight and Greater Twilight are bugged to be armor-only, unless they fixed it.

I didn't realize that. I can't believe that's restricted like that.

[Trillea]

I didn't realize that. I can't believe that's restricted like that.

I don't think they are supposed to be tho, which is why I said bugged.