Finishing touches on a human DPS pally

[suszterpatt]

Toying around with the idea of building a human (32pt) THF pally along these lines:

Pure pally (for capstone)
starting stats 16/8/16/10/8/16, level ups go into STR
feats: Toughness, PA, IC:Slash, FoP, 3xTHF, ???
skills: Conc, Intim, ???
enhancements: the usual, KotC 3, Divine Might/Righteousness, Exalted Smite, CHA, Class/Racial Toughness, Human Adaptability and Healing Amp. Haven't done the math for the exact points, but those are my targets. Obviously not going to max some of them (DM 4, CHA 3, and HA 3 are clearly out of the question).

I'm not one to set fix targets for equipment, but I will be crafting a ConcOpp item with SP up the wahoo. If my math is right, then at 20 I should have a standing 500+ HP and ~600 SP.


Main questions:

1. 8th feat = ?
I see several good choices: Extend, Mental Toughness, and Extra Turning being the main features

2. 3rd skill = ?
Even with the high-ish CHA I'm not sure I could get UMD to a usable level. I was thinking Balance.

3. Does this look capable of hate tanking raid/epic bosses? Or at least generic endgame trash? Kobolds?

[Balkas]

I love having Extend on my Paladin. Especially if you're going to want to tank with him; having to rebuff midfight reduces your DPS and is often difficult because you most likely won't make your Concentration check when hit.

Force of Personality is a bit "meh" as far as feats go; you'll have high saves without it.

You can get your UMD up to useful levels; I'd probably go for that.

If you want to tank, you're most likely going to need more hit points. Another Toughness (or 4 ) wouldn't hurt.

As far as enhancements go, don't forget Divine Sacrifice.

[eulogy098]

As far as enhancements go, don't forget Divine Sacrifice.

DS 1 is a no-brainer but I wonder the consensus on the efficiency of the further ranks. There is no additional crit-profile increase, just a touch more light damage.

[Balkas]

DS 1 is a no-brainer but I wonder the consensus on the efficiency of the further ranks. There is no additional crit-profile increase, just a touch more light damage.

I always take as many ranks as I can. 9d6 is a lot of damage.

[suszterpatt]

I'm not really dedicated to building a boss tank, though being able to round up trash and survive until they drop is one of my aims. Sort of a melee crowd control.

Which gives me an idea... what if I dropped FoP, and took Cleave and Great Cleave?

[Atremus]

1. 8th feat = ?

Extend. You will want it

2. 3rd skill = ?

Personal Taste / Opinion here:

Jump
Balance

[sephiroth1084]

I'd recommend dumping FoP, as you won't need it.

For your two remaining feats you could take:
Maximize + Quicken for some powerful self-healing. Works a lot better with a Torc and/or Concordant Opposition, but is passable without I suppose.

Extend + Toughness #2.

Maybe Skill Focus: UMD (UMD should be your 3rd maxed skill--I'd actually recommend leaving off Concentration a little early, to put some ranks in Balance or Jump, then picking it up when you read a +2 Int tome, if you can afford one at level 7).


Take as much Divine Sacrifice as you can afford. More damage is always good, and the ranks themselves aren't all that expensive. Each rank buys you another 2d6 damage.

[Claymorep]

You are on the right way, but personally i don't consider fop a good idea.
I'll take extend and thoughness for an easier to play pally.
I'll take quicken and maximize for a 180-250 hp (depends on extra ha on equippe) selfhealing

About enhancments personally I consider DS 1 a must have to rotate with exalted smites, moreover don't forget paladine resistance of good (I took all the line) for impenetrable saving trows and a good anti-suffering party from area damage spells in epics.

Regarding to tank in epic 500 hp are not a lot, but with selfhealing capabilities is not bad, but forget to tank horoth in tod. You can tank soulo anyway especially with quicken that anable you to instant remove curse faster than potions.

About skills: balance, umd, intimidate and 2 points in tumble

Take a look on my build for a good idea of end pally even if Myddo is broken.
You'll end with 40/20/30/14/24/30, 597 hp with rage, saves 46-40-40 selfdone in normal questing (+4 on external) and +4 to party, stay in line with top dps vs externals (no build can stole me aggro and didn't take extra +100% aggro), self healing for 260 hp. Umd without failure on all needed scrolls (raise, heal, fire shield). No suffering on the lack of evasion as fire shiled is a common scroll to cast and firestorms if needed (equipped always on me). I'll change soon torc on necklace and i'll create a different greensteel cloack probably radiance or conc opp.

Hope this can help in creating a no useless pally (a lots around that gives a bad reputation to the class)

[FrozenNova]

I would definitely endorse the max+quicken if you have two feats to spare. With only one, extend is typical, but you can get a suprisingly massive amount of healing out of CSW, especially on a human.

1.3 human recovery
1.1 eldritch
1.1 guild
1.2 tempest / leviks
= 1.8876 amp
1.3 eGoTC
= 2.454

Cure serious wounds is 3d6+21 - average 31.5
Using superior ardor and devotion 2:
31.5*(1+0.2+0.75)*(2) = 122.85 per cast
With easy amp, 231.9 per cast on self.
With gloves of the claw, 301 per cast on self.
If you get a greensteel sp item, like many paladins do for UMD, you'll have ~600 sp, and max/quicken CSW costs a mere 47. And if you take a day to farm up a bauble - and especially given you're already creating a concordant opposition anyway.

In other news, further ranks of divine sacrifice arn't worth the AP imo on a two handed fighter.
When twfing, with a 0.8 chance to double it, would be good to consider.
You can definitely get umd to a usable level. It may take some effort to reach heal scrolls, but it is doable on a typical paladin.
11 ranks
07 charisma (16 base + 6 item + 2 tome)
04 GH
03 Cartouche
01 Prayer or voice of master
06 Greensteel
+2 Seven fingered gloves
+1 Reaver head
01 d20 roll
= 36, nofail raise
03 Epic big top
01 +2 Charisma shrine
= 40, nofail heal.

Gathering those last three equips will take some time, admittedly. But as it's possible, I'd certainly go for it.

[suszterpatt]

I would definitely endorse the max+quicken if you have two feats to spare. With only one, extend is typical, but you can get a suprisingly massive amount of healing out of CSW, especially on a human.

1.3 human recovery
1.1 eldritch
1.1 guild
1.2 tempest / leviks
= 1.8876 amp
1.3 eGoTC
= 2.454

Cure serious wounds is 3d6+21 - average 31.5
Using superior ardor and devotion 2:
31.5*(1+0.2+0.75)*(2) = 122.85 per cast
With easy amp, 231.9 per cast on self.
With gloves of the claw, 301 per cast on self.
If you get a greensteel sp item, like many paladins do for UMD, you'll have ~600 sp, and max/quicken CSW costs a mere 47. And if you take a day to farm up a bauble - and especially given you're already creating a concordant opposition anyway.

In other news, further ranks of divine sacrifice arn't worth the AP imo on a two handed fighter.
When twfing, with a 0.8 chance to double it, would be good to consider.
You can definitely get umd to a usable level. It may take some effort to reach heal scrolls, but it is doable on a typical paladin.
11 ranks
07 charisma (16 base + 6 item + 2 tome)
04 GH
03 Cartouche
01 Prayer or voice of master
06 Greensteel
+2 Seven fingered gloves
+1 Reaver head
01 d20 roll
= 36, nofail raise
03 Epic big top
01 +2 Charisma shrine
= 40, nofail heal.

Gathering those last three equips will take some time, admittedly. But as it's possible, I'd certainly go for it.

Things that make you go hmm....


The problem with UMD is that I don't have Carnival nor Titan, and looking at the Fens items, that will probably be my next pack for other reasons. Still, with SF:UMD I could get into the mid-30s (raise/DD/fire shield) with little effort, and have 20+ standing to bypass alignment/race restrictions...


I guess Quicken would allow me to abandon Concentration, so I could train Intim, UMD and Balance. Interesting...

[sephiroth1084]

Things that make you go hmm....


The problem with UMD is that I don't have Carnival nor Titan, and looking at the Fens items, that will probably be my next pack for other reasons. Still, with SF:UMD I could get into the mid-30s (raise/DD/fire shield) with little effort, and have 20+ standing to bypass alignment/race restrictions...


I guess Quicken would allow me to abandon Concentration, so I could train Intim, UMD and Balance. Interesting...

Concentration is still useful if you're UMDing a lot, since Quicken doesn't free you from the need for checks when using scrolls.

[crestoftheknave]

Marking for future reference.