Combat Expertise advice

[Alektronic]

So this is to you tanks out there... How often and when do you use CE?

I'm fairly new to the tanking world, at lvl 19 on my pally monk hybrid tank, and just can't bring myself to turn off PA in any situation. I don't even have CE on this build (will try it out next life), but in this life, I do use the defensive stance at times for grins. Although 5 AC>>2AC, they both have the same to-hit penalty, so I figured it would give me some flavor for CE. Result is... I just can't justify it. If I can take the to-hit penalty, I'd rather take the potential +25% in dmg for more dps, and if I'm on the AC fence (so to speak), I probably shouldn't be AC tanking ANYWAY, and should go the meatbag route.

Someone with more experience shed the light on this feat for me before I TR this guy? Tnx .

[elraido]

Rarely on my main do I need to use it. Most quests he is outside of the monsters range to hit him. But some of the higher up amarath quests it does help. And remember you need to really be in the 70's to 80's in AC for it to help you. Situationally it can be great....but I would say 90% of the time (raids), I leave PA on.

[Alektronic]

So, um... is it safe to say you should take either CE or PA, but not both unless you're swimming in feats, and just don't know what to do with them?

SIDE NOTE: Right, I'm assuming we are in the 70-90 AC sweet spot range. I'm not there yet, but that is my end build goal.

[elraido]

So, um... is it safe to say you should take either CE or PA, but not both unless you're swimming in feats, and just don't know what to do with them?

SIDE NOTE: Right, I'm assuming we are in the 70-90 AC sweet spot range. I'm not there yet, but that is my end build goal.

Remember right now, AC is useless in Epic. I have had a 90+ in there and was getting hit on every single attack. But, like I said, on my main I have both feats....it is up to you if you use it or not. Personally, I like at least having the option and am cramming for every AC I can. It sounds like you might just want to use defensive fighting for a more well rounded build...save the feat for something else. You can also take it (granted you need to have the int for it, so a 11 and a +2 tome is the best way to go), and swap it out...you won't be wasting too many abililty points if you go that way.

[Feithlin]

On my fighter tank, I'm usually on PA mode, but if I face a difficult situation (a big pack of ennemies, a boss hiting hard), I switch to CE mode. The damage output is reduced, but survivability increases a lot *if* I'm in the right AC bracket. If before CE your AC is high enough to not be hit only a 1, CE gives 25% less hits. That's a lot, especially if you need some heal (be it yours: not being hit makes it easier to umd your wand/scroll, from your hireling who decided to look for flowers on the other side of the dungeon, or from a near party wipe where the poor healer is busy trying to keep everybody alive).
*Edit: If you want a very high AC (80+), CE is almost mandatory.

[Waylayer]

I have a ranger (exploiter build) and he can fit both CE/PA into his build; except he didn't

He is my soloer, he has decent AC for what he does - so he generally never turns off CE (except in cases where it makes zero difference). For me, PA would be a waste - so I took a different wasteful feat; Whirlwind Attack.

Yes, I would be gimp DPS in a group; but he doesn't group, and WA works for him ...

But about the CE; the 3 AC between CE and DS can make or break your AC. If you can fit CE and PA into your build, and you have enough AC for CE to make a difference, you should take both feats.