Please bring back auto-crits on Holds or....

[PNellesen]

This, mobs were dropping very fast in the Epics I ran.

Also don't decease the cost of heal. In most MMOs and games in general, the more efficient way to heal is using the weaker heals, which have a better HP to SP ratio. It requires more thought about the urgency of the situation ect then just using heal. I like the Sp changes they made for heals and cures.

That was my impression as well, at least in Big Top last night (the first Epic I've run since the update) It didn't really seem to take any longer to take down the held mobs without auto-crit than it did with it before the Update.

I would definitely like to hear what healer-types think of the Epic changes. I've hesitated taking my Cleric into any until I could get an idea of whether or not the resource requirements had increased, decreased, or basically stayed the same. From what I saw on my melee, the cleric didn't seem to use any more or less sp or scrolls than he would have previously (and I started paying attention right before Update 9 went live so I would be able to do a rough comparison)

[Missing_Minds]

Though I am a proponent of mob to-hits being lowered so AC is useful in all content I have to say that the new epics are EASIER than they used to be. Sure we can't auto-crit with picks anymore but the mobs have their HP cut in half.

Tell that to the bosses. IF anything they have had their saves, AC, and HP upped. They are even more of a boring pain in the rear now. Or mass panic for the healers depending.

But stat damage weapons... still acting the same just like they did pre U9. I thought that was supposed to change.

[Chai]

Though I am a proponent of mob to-hits being lowered so AC is useful in all content I have to say that the new epics are EASIER than they used to be. Sure we can't auto-crit with picks anymore but the mobs have their HP cut in half.

Yeap exactly. True we do less damage in a mass hold situation, but the mobs have less HP.

[brzytki]

For me epics now are easier and less boring than before U9. With instakills allowed it takes LESS time to complete any epic quest, especially that mobs have half hp than before.

I ran Epic OOB shortly after U9 went live. With healer, caster (not necro), bard (spellsinger), rogue (me) and 2 monks we completed in 30 min w/o using all shrines, any pots or holding a single mob. Everything just died so fast. We just beat them down barely using any CC.

[Hambo]

/not signed.

That 20-30% increase in completion time is bonus breather time for Turbine to develop more content to appease those who have to "Speed Racer" through existing content and complain when there's nothing new to do.

If so many people didn't have the "One and Done" attitude it wouldn't be so bad.

Before you go off on me about the above statement, please realize that I have been with this game since late 2005 and have not taken extended breaks like most others have (except for a month of job training with no decent computer access). I've run all the old content hundreds if not thousands of times... I just do it solo now

[grodon9999]

[QUOTE=Missing_Minds;3770855]Tell that to the bosses. IF anything they have had their saves, AC, and HP upped. They are even more of a boring pain in the rear now. Or mass panic for the healers depending.

I haven't noticed this. In fact I'm going to go on record saying the end-fight of the new content on elite is harder than most of the end fights in epics.

But stat damage weapons... still acting the same just like they did pre U9. I thought that was supposed to change.

I have a rapier spec'd toon and I'm half tempted at this point to use her +5/+3 Icy-burst WoP rapiers to charge power cells. These used to be amazing in non-epics and now are pretty much **** (don't get me started on the uselessness of the WoP bow . . .) in all content. Allowing them to work in epics might make them somewhat non-garbage but as of right now they're getting parked in the bank.

[GoldyGopher]

/not signed

The other night I ran a couple of epic quests with two barbarians, a wizard (I think they were supposed to be a Pale Master), a Bard, and one piker. It was the Piker's LFM by the way.

If you were to speak to both Barbarians, we will call one Bob and the other Dave, both of which would have had polar opposite opinions of post U9 Epic. As the Healer I get to sit back and watch what was going on around me. It's not the Barbarians didn't need a few heals but no where near what a few others I have run with need.

Both Barbarians were THF specced and claimed to be Max Str builds, I have run with them in the past and I always gave a slight edge in DPS to Bob, a warforged, over Dave, a dwarf. Since I don't play a high level Barbarian I don't know what changed for those two but there is little question that Bob now does 50% to 66% more DPS than Dave. If Bob took 8 swings to drop a mob Dave took at least 12. The differance as far as we can tell was 2 points of Strength in the two builds and Warforged vs. Dwarf. To me the difference is then Warforged Power Attack. I am not sure if that is 1 point or 4 points more damage per swing plus 1 point for strength (including Dwarf Axe Damage), but that little bit of dfference sure magnified itself in the Epic. To me there has to be something different involved, but IDK for sure.

So Dave is of the opinion U9 sucks and Bob is like hey this isn't to bad.

[Yaga_Nub]

/not signed

...

GG this isn't really a signed or not signed thing as much as it is a what's your opinion and what are you seeing type of thing. The title is purposely misleading.

[Nick_RC]

What quests specifically are giving you probs B? Epic chains?

[Yaga_Nub]

What quests specifically are giving you probs B? Epic chains?

Yeah definitely seeing more in the longer quests. Epic should cost some more resources but it's getting ridiculous in Chains.

I will say that it seems like epic Queen is much easier although the bunch together and heal through stuff tactic is kinda bunk.

[Nick_RC]

Yeah definitely seeing more in the longer quests. Epic should cost some more resources but it's getting ridiculous in Chains.

I will say that it seems like epic Queen is much easier although the bunch together and heal through stuff tactic is kinda bunk.

Yeah Chains is the only one that I can think of that should give you any problems with the changes. Any others? Maybe ev3 with drow SR being what it is. Havnt run that one since the change tho. Give me specifics or its all noise!!!

Yeah I hate the ball method too. So inelegant and boring.

[GoldyGopher]

GG this isn't really a signed or not signed thing as much as it is a what's your opinion and what are you seeing type of thing. The title is purposely misleading.

If you talk to the two Barbarians that I ran with one of them would whole heartedly agree with you the other would ask what the heck are you talking about.

As a cleric who sat back and watched there is something about Bob's build that makes this so much easier than Dave's build. To me running with Three Bob's, an Arcane and maybe a Bard would make any epic almost to easy as it stands today and so I have to say I don't agree with bring back auto crits.

On the other hand I really wish I knew what the difference was between the two build so I could help others out there is obviousily something that My DDO doesn't tell me and one or the other is lying about. But that's a different story.

Does that make Sense?

[Yaga_Nub]

Yeah Chains is the only one that I can think of that should give you any problems with the changes. Any others? Maybe ev3 with drow SR being what it is. Havnt run that one since the change tho. Give me specifics or its all noise!!!

Yeah I hate the ball method too. So inelegant and boring.

That why it's just a feeling right now Nick. The problem is that the shorter quests are so short or have plenty of shrines so the drain on resources/increased need for healing isn't as compounded. It's there but we fly through things so fast that an extra 200 or 300 sp for more healing isn't even noticed. Which also should make most people say, "What does it matter then?" Well it matters to me because if there is even a small issue now and it's not addressed then the next update or the one after that, etc. could just start compounding the issues. Every quest (except the latest ones I would assume) were created and balanced for a certain set of rules that no longer completely apply so I'm just being cautious right now. In two weeks I say it was all hooey but for now I want to get others ideas about how epics are looking and what their experiences are in them.

[Alternative]

Well, shortly after u9 we ran an epic dq1 without a healer or anyone with mass hold, just sorc with webs as only means of CC, and melee oriented bard. Mobs were dying so fast it wasn't funny, the queen got encased, no shards dropped (again). And no, it wasn't a group made of multiple TRed incredibles

[Rdonaccount]

Because the mobs are staying alive longer, the damage they are doing is much higher and the devs haven't balanced the quests with that thought in mind.

Mass Hold only became a viable strategy after u5 (last june) introduced the minion debuff, lower epic trash saves by 10. In essense, devs specifically designed the quests with the intention of mobs doing that much damage. If you are having trouble keeping everyone alive, it might be time to start revisiting some of the old staples of epics, such as using a caster to grab aggro in a safe spot before the melees jump in.

[mute_mayhem]

From a healer standpoint, I would say resource usage has gone way up, at least for my two favored souls. Before update 9, it was not uncommon for my human fvs to finish epics with 75%+ of his spell points remaining. Now, I have less than 10% left in a typical epic. The reason for it is I'm able to add much more to the party in terms of divine punishment, implosion, and the occasional destruction.

Although when I say resources, I just mean spell points...I haven't had to use any pots in any of the epics I've done since U9 launched.

I much prefer this method of doing epics to the rather boring mass hold, woo woo stick beat down, rinse and repeat of previous updates.