Post DoooOMmm Day 1. Barbarians

[protokon]

roll an int-based barb and use heavy repeaters.

[Qezuzu]

No 50% increase for SA damage on held mobs? Oh noes whatever shall rogues do now? It's possible that we can't kill held trash as fast as a barb, possibly maybe if my broken math is accurate. And then people will only accept barbs, not rogues, because they can do 10% higher damage on held trash or something! (which won't be as held since they're getting +4 saves, but that's not relevant to my alarm bells!)

One word: Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate Assassinate

(more like 55 words)

Seriously, this skill will be awesome in epics. I have DC 38 with 12 starting INT. Things will save most of the time, but you can use it over and over and over and over again. They'll roll a low roll sooner or later and then you just 3k or something damge in one hit!

[kinar]

if you havent roll a rogue let me tell you what a rogue is about. rogues are:
HIGH DPS
LOW HP (compared to barbs and fighters)
CONTROLLING AGRO
TRAPS

i feel next update rogues will be.

LOW HP
TRAPS
AGRO

lol...so you're saying that you will now be doing LESS dps but getting MORE agro...yep, that makes a lot of sense.

The only classes that are getting buffed in the former-autocrit scenario vs the new helpless scenario are casters.

EVERYONE else got nerfed...TRing into a barb is only gonna help you to TR back to a rogue with +10hp


Melee all got nerfed the same (except your crits will actually be higher now than before on helpless mobs).

[Khanyth]

Grats on rolling a barb!!!! Enjoy doing lots of damage all the time.

Just remember to yell "heal me" a lot and beat your cleric hireling mercilessly.

Side note: for all the clerics, fvs, bards, and other healing classes, I jest on the yelling part

[Jamma]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=296816

most barb builds are very similar. i'd go thf horc or WF.

you'll kill trash very effectively, do some top dps on bosses, and have the hp to tank it.

But then he'll have to reroll again when he finds out his glancing blows aren't +50% either.

[Sympl]

If you're not the trap guy, then who is?

(enters stage right in dark cape)

***I am the Batman***

(exits stage left with a flourish)

[Ginetti]

As I said in a previous post: Rogues should do the most damage among melee types, as their hit dice is only a D6, compared to the Fighters D10, the Barbs D12, etc.

We are more squishy and need to use more tactics in battle than the average melee type to survive.

[Nahual]

EVERYONE else got nerfed...TRing into a barb is only gonna help you to TR back to a rogue with +10hp

+1 for this


I say let him tr, just search the Forums for Blitz. I think thats the best all around DPS atm. Although not technically a barb.

[eonfreon]

As I said in a previous post: Rogues should do the most damage among melee types, as their hit dice is only a D6, compared to the Fighters D10, the Barbs D12, etc.

We are more squishy and need to use more tactics in battle than the average melee type to survive.

We are talking about a helpless Mob. The ones who don't fight back thus don't do any damage to your squishy Rogue.

And Rogues still do the most damage most of the time.

[paraplegic]

well since you guys dont belive me ( barbarians!!!) i have to bring few maths.

due my lazyness i have been using THIS DPS CALCULATOR and i have taken the Brb 20, THF Half-Orc vs the Rog 20, TWF Half-Orc (why halforc? well since SA dont get the 50% HO is better )

so here are some results in case you are lazy and dont want to open that THIS DPS CALCULATOR


the HO barbarian lvl 20
normal helpless(50% more damage
scenario 1 506.8287856 // 760.2431784
scenario 2 410.28 // 615.42
(pointless to put scenario 3)

the HO Rogue (the standar rogue build deals about 51.62337662%SA damage in a normal hit (meaning 2-16)
means
Normal Helpless

scenario 1 646.74647 // 803.183522 <---5% more dps than a barb norm damage
norm damage 312.874104 // 469.311156
SA 333.872366 // 333.872366

scenario 2 456.84 // 567.3418831 <----8% less dps than a barb
norm damage 221.0037662 // 331.5056494
SA 235.8362338 // 235.8362338



!!sure there could be many flaws in my maths but im preatty sure that even when rogue is "top dps" 5% is just not fair.

[stille_nacht]

to rephrase what i said before....

SA doesnt do 50% more when things are held (oh nooooo those held still mobs sure are dangerous)
barbarians no longer do 400% more when things are held (they now do 50% more)

rogues do 66% against held mobs compared to previous
barbarians do 30% of what they used to do against held mobs

and OP is switching to barb because of the changes?

/shake head

[paraplegic]

to rephrase what i said before....

SA doesnt do 50% more when things are held (oh nooooo those held still mobs sure are dangerous) when mobs get improved fortitude reflex and will .--- then you will know how dangerous they will get
barbarians no longer do 400% more when things are held (they now do 50% more)
its not what they used to do ( sure they got major nerf) but what they will do and to compare that against rogues

rogues do 66% against held mobs compared to previous
barbarians do 30% of what they used to do against held mobs

and OP is switching to barb because of the changes?

/shake head

in red

[stille_nacht]

in red

it is very much what they used to do, because that is what the Op is switching because of, im just pointing out that barbs got the worse nerf.

(also, are they introducing fort on a lot of mobs next update? D: )

also, if they cant be held well, you shouldnt worry about the held damage SA nerf op was talking about

side note: rogues do more damage than barbs even in 50% fort situations (see dps chart in some other thread, still titled "new dps chart" but its like a 1/2 year old >.>, no updates to those classes since when it was posted tho)

[tgu]

I disliked how some people posted with the typical troll material (GL with the rerolling to rolling back), but the poster really didn't put himself in a favorable light.

I remember even I thought when dark monk was changed it was a "nerf", and several "nerfed" threads were around. Wasn't the case.

Same case here, all melee will be seeing a decrease in damage, which was intended to bring casters and melee in very close balance.

Don't think it has been mentioned - but why roll a Rogue? The damage is right up to par, but I didn't think that was the reason for rolling one. It was traps, locked chest, sneaking, and being...ROGUE-like. Not having high HP, the I-Win of damage, or anything else besides, quite honestly, a SPECIALIST!

[ProdigalGuru]

The OP reads like he is more suited to Barbarian anyways.

DPS Calc was a dead giveaway.

[paraplegic]

I disliked how some people posted with the typical troll material (GL with the rerolling to rolling back),agree if your not going to post anything usefull dont do it but the poster really didn't put himself in a favorable light.

I remember even I thought when dark monk was changed it was a "nerf", and several "nerfed" threads were around. Wasn't the case.

Same case here, all melee will be seeing a decrease in damage, which was intended to bring casters and melee in very close balance.

Don't think it has been mentioned - but why roll a Rogue?thats exactly what im asking my self. why rogue? yea at first glance the SA was good, traps where good etc BUUUUUT 1) 18Wiz/2Rog can do better traps with all the int, Barb got more HP+Damage. The damage is right up to par, but I didn't think that was the reason for rolling one. It was traps, locked chest, sneaking, and being...ROGUE-like. Not having high HP, the I-Win of damage, or anything else besides, quite honestly, a SPECIALIST!

quesiton why should i keep the rogue? after all any class can do better than a rogue..


THIS IS IMPORTANT im not saying barb didnt get nerf, all melee class suffered some more some less, but in a head to head rogues are suboptimal dps , what im saying is that i was expecting the rogue to be ultimate DPS in the update, afterall rogue dice is d6 barbarian is d12, and mage can heal it self. there is no point to be a rogue

[Cam_Neely]

right now after seeing SA wont get 50%more damage in helpless situation i will change my rogue and roll a barb (yes i will TR him) i was wondering which build should i pick for my new barbarian.? which barbarian will be the best for the DooooOmm update?

Barbs aren't getting 50% more dmg on glancing blows. DOOOOooomMM! What flavor of the week are you going to hop to now?

[Shade]

Yea your a bit confused if you think barbs get better and rogues get nerfed for helpless.

Barbs use x3/x4 crit weapons, and deal a lot of glancing blow dmg.. Thats all getting nerfed.

Rogues and barbs who use hvy picks get equally nerfed vs helpless.
Rogues who use khopesh, overall, lose less dps then barbs who use two handers - especially non esos ones. (as glancing blows arent increased either)

Overall this is an awesome update for assasin rogues, and a bad one for barbs. If anything, i wish the changes effecting barbs wouldnt happen. Id give away my 1000+ crits to keep my stuns and trip working properly.

Assasin Rogues get:
+100 dmg on sneak attack vorpals vs 1000+ hp targets
Death to anything under that, even previously immune targets like epic/certain amraths/etc.
Assasinate working on nearly all trash, even epic.

Barbs get:
Nerfed stunning blow, (no glancing blow or offhand proc)
Nerfed trip (no glancing blow or offhand proc)
Sure supreme cleaves slightly improved, but still not very good and uses up a ton of hp. And horrible for certain common barb setups (halforc+greataxe)

[paraplegic]

Barbs aren't getting 50% more dmg on glancing blows. DOOOOooomMM! What flavor of the week are you going to hop to now?

indded no glancing blows +50% but top news:
SA>glancing blows

[Wraith_Sarevok]

How do we know Glancing Blows and Sneak Attacks aren't SUPPOSED to be getting a +50% damage bonus on held mobs?

Has it been confirmed that this is the way it was intended to work?