KOTC HP Greensteel Item

[arjiwan]

Greetings Noble Paladins,

I searched the DDO forums for my question and it seems I can't find the specific answer.

My friend is a KOTC DPS Paladin. Non-AC, non-tank build. We have completed the weapons department and now aiming for the HP GS item.

Pos / Pos Maul is done
Lit2 Holy / Shock / Shock Falchion is done

I am thinking of HP cloak item using Con-opp. Is this a viable idea?

Are there any other DPS non-GS cloak available?

Cheers!

[drromanelli]

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/itemwiki/default.aspx

[arjiwan]

Uhmm.. dude?

I know how to look for an item. Uhmm.. I don't think that helps a lot.

[arjiwan]

Bump.

I hope someone can help me. We are planning for a GS Cloak.

Are paladins better off with guards, instead of con-opp?

Thanks!

[Lord_kNiels]

It is possible to make a cloak with + 45 hp and concordant opposition. As a paladin you will most likely benefit form spell point regeneration as the paladin spells let a paladin perform even better.
What you will have to choose from is only if you want +5 con skills and +1 str skills or +4 con skills and +2 str skills as the tier 3 will always be +3 con skills.

EDIT: However if you want a lot of initial spell points you would be better off with a separate sp item that gives wiz VI and 150 exceptional sp, and a separate hp item that gives +45 exceptional hp and a guard. This would depend on the effort you want to put into it, but a hp and conc opp cloak is no bad idea at all.

[arjiwan]

It is possible to make a cloak with + 45 hp and concordant opposition. As a paladin you will most likely benefit form spell point regeneration as the paladin spells let a paladin perform even better.
What you will have to choose from is only if you want +5 con skills and +1 str skills or +4 con skills and +2 str skills as the tier 3 will always be +3 con skills.

Yup, thanks for the reply. We have all the crafting part ok. The ingredients, the dual shard crafting, etc etc.

We are now thinking if we rather have a dual shard con-opp or go for a single shard guard instead.

Well, con-opp is also nice because the +6 wisdom will save one necklace slot.

Cheers!

[Lord_kNiels]

Yup, thanks for the reply. We have all the crafting part ok. The ingredients, the dual shard crafting, etc etc.

We are now thinking if we rather have a dual shard con-opp or go for a single shard guard instead.

Well, con-opp is also nice because the +6 wisdom will save one necklace slot.

Cheers!

As for the neck spot: If you plan on some good end game effort this would probably be taken by an amrath necklace. These provide +6 abilities as well and the rings provide their bit too. So before you get too far in with your greensteel you might want to think about what you would like in your neck, belt and rings. (This would also take a lot of raid and quest grinding to get though.)

[TheDearLeader]

Not Belt.
Not Necklace.
Not Boots.
Likely not Gloves.

Cloak, Helm, Bracers, Goggles are some of your ideas.

Most people in the past haven't done Goggles because of Tharne's Goggles, which are additional DPS as well as a convenient location for True Seeing. Sometimes, though, I wonder if they are worth the slot. I wear them... but I still wonder.

Really, it all depends on what gear falls into their lap, and what their goals are.

Epic 5-Piece Abishai set? Well, you already know what you're ruling out, if so.

If not, I'm pretty sure even for the 4 slots I listed above as potential locations, I can also name an item that is also really really nice to put there. So... yeah. Find somewhere that seems good.

As for "type" of hit point item... meh. I use Min II, because it allows me a Stoneskin Clickie, Heavy Fortification, and by slotting Toughness in a Blue/Green slot, I can ditch Minos and use something else in my helm slot.

Concordant Opposition isn't horrible - the Temp HP proc fairly often, so that's survivability. In most cases, I would say that Paladins do not need more SP than they walk into quest with. Of course, I'm biased by having a HP *and* SP GS accessory.

Smoke II may not be a bad choice - Permanent Blur against all but boss mobs is pretty nice.

The single-shard guards.. meh. Especially in U9, where Earthgrab will no longer be guaranteeing you an Auto-crit situation. If your friend wants it because its cheaper, sure, but whatever.

My personal suggestion would have been to craft the HP accessory *first* and to use Holy Swords for 90% of endgame content, but their items are already crafted.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I've started to think on some builds that goggles is a good location for an SP/Charisma skills item as it can be hot swapped as needed. I'd say cloak is a good spot for a HP conc-opp/con skills item.

[Kourier]

If you aren't using +2 dodge bracers the bracer spot is good on a dps melee (What else are you going to put there?).

[SiliconShadow]

Personally I went goggles concordat opposition as the other slots would fill

Epic Helm of Frost
Stalwart necklace / Kyoshos tank or dps
Epic Envenomed cloak
Epic bracers of the claw
Epic Gloves of the claw/Epic charged gauntlets depending if I am tanking
Epic belt of mrornan
Epic boots of corrosion

[Irongutz2000]

Lighting storm gaurd is fun, something about seeing a lightning bolt zap something that hits u makes me smile

Air gaurd is underated 3, 1 min 1/2 hastes, chance to be hasted onn hit, or knock down monster, for 2 large scales, not bad


nvr had con opp so can't coment

****edit Also disintagrate gaurd would be nice for a hp gaurd, 500ish untyped damage .....then go lighting strom gaurd for sp item, lotta larges but stuff would regret hitting u lol

[AylinIsAwesome]

Personally, if I can fit in 2 GS items, I prefer one with Wizardry 6 and +35 HP, and the other one with +10 HP and +150 SP.

The reason for this is that lets me get +6 CHA skills on items that I like, such as Lightning Guard and Con-Op 100% of the time.

I personally went with Bracers and Cloak on my Paladin (I feel the extra +4 to-hit from Spectrals is better than the +4 damage from Claw Set on this character).

[Irongutz2000]

(I feel the extra +4 to-hit from Spectrals is better than the +4 damage from Claw Set on this character).

Why not have both epic ravens sight googles/gloves of the claw + gem from chorno = +4 to hit and damage, much better set up but takes some grinding

[AylinIsAwesome]

Why not have both epic ravens sight googles/gloves of the claw + gem from chorno = +4 to hit and damage, much better set up but takes some grinding

But then I'd lose Litany and Tharne's.

Assuming I hit on a 2, at 50% Fort I'd lose some DPS.

Tharne's, Litany, and Spectrals: .95 * .5 * 8 + .85 * 2 + .1 * 3 * 2 = 6.1

Raven's, Claw, and Gem: .85 * 4 + .1 * 3 * 4 = 4.6


More at 0% Fort:

.95 * 8 + .75 * 2 + .2 * 3 * 2 = 10.3

.75 * 4 + .2 * 4 * 3 = 5.4


I'd also lose some to-hit going that way (1 from Litany, 5 more whenever I'd qualify for SA).

[arjiwan]

Thanks all for the reply, I really appreciate it.

The single-shard guards.. meh. Especially in U9, where Earthgrab will no longer be guaranteeing you an Auto-crit situation. If your friend wants it because its cheaper, sure, but whatever.

My personal suggestion would have been to craft the HP accessory *first* and to use Holy Swords for 90% of endgame content, but their items are already crafted.

We finished the weapons part, the falchion Lit2 and Pos2 maul. We are not really aiming for "cheaper" single shards GS items. If it is a better HP guard dual shard, why not. We made the cloak, still deciding what to place there. Regarding the epic toughness and heavy fort, we are not doing any epics yet, so I don't think that is possible for now. (We only have demon sands pack)

If you aren't using +2 dodge bracers the bracer spot is good on a dps melee (What else are you going to put there?).

She doesn't have anything on her bracers. Maybe a future GS bracers with +6 cha skills like what AylinIsAwesome did?

Personally I went goggles concordat opposition as the other slots would fill

Epic Helm of Frost
Stalwart necklace / Kyoshos tank or dps
Epic Envenomed cloak
Epic bracers of the claw
Epic Gloves of the claw/Epic charged gauntlets depending if I am tanking
Epic belt of mrornan
Epic boots of corrosion

The epic stuff are just wow. Hehe.. We are near-end game. But I really think we are very verrrry far away from this one. (Casual players)

[arjiwan]

Finished making the GS Cloak blank.

The suggestions / advices are very sound. But we are still having trouble on deciding what to place. Of course, being casual players, the ingredients are very very very hard to accumulate, so that's why I want to be sure it will be a wise decision.

But still, doing dual shards is part of the goal. I believe that, if you want something, don't settle for a single shard just to make it cheaper.

Here are my thoughts and debate on my mind regarding the Con-opp cloak:

Pro:
By having a con-opp cloak, it will have a +6 wisdom. It will free up the wisdom slot (wc is currently on a normal +6 WIS ring, it will be replaced by a TOD ring).

Con:
I understand what theDearLeader explained. The sp regen will not be that big a deal. The temporary hp, even though with high proc, is still meh for me. She will not be doing solo runs, always runs with a cleric. But pretty self-sufficient with LOH, and UMD.

I apologize all, but I hope you could help me with my thoughts.

[Emili]

Finished making the GS Cloak blank.

The suggestions / advices are very sound. But we are still having trouble on deciding what to place. Of course, being casual players, the ingredients are very very very hard to accumulate, so that's why I want to be sure it will be a wise decision.

But still, doing dual shards is part of the goal. I believe that, if you want something, don't settle for a single shard just to make it cheaper.

Here are my thoughts and debate on my mind regarding the Con-opp cloak:

Pro:
By having a con-opp cloak, it will have a +6 wisdom. It will free up the wisdom slot (wc is currently on a normal +6 WIS ring, it will be replaced by a TOD ring).

Con:
I understand what theDearLeader explained. The sp regen will not be that big a deal. The temporary hp, even though with high proc, is still meh for me. She will not be doing solo runs, always runs with a cleric. But pretty self-sufficient with LOH, and UMD.

I apologize all, but I hope you could help me with my thoughts.

I swear by con-op on my pally and rangers... fact is no class out there utilizes con-op to the extent that these classes do. When always in the frey you get hit enough.

Let's start by saying in raid groups pallys and rangers are often asked to hand out resists and other buffs. My pally - a kotc - has about 500sp when she enters the quest ... item swaps out an sp item adter initial buffs.

So when starting out is left with maybe half that to spare - for combat ... Zeal and Divine favour are a MUST keep up on a DPS pally.

During the quest you may run low between shrines - like the ToD judge/jailor fight but con-op seems to keep you pretty steady...

Then comes the more prolonged fights at the boss. You shrined again first but usually people raid buff to the hilt... I may be left with 100-200sp before part 3 of ToD elite starts for example ... She'll drop to about 50sp quickly ... zeal/df goes down you put them back up quickly... the mob hitting you back before you need the next rebuff and you never worry that you do not have it for zeal/divine favour. You're at 50-60sp again before it's time to rebuff it.

[arjiwan]

I swear by con-op on my pally and rangers... fact is no class out there utilizes con-op to the extent that these classes do. When always in the frey you get hit enough.

Let's start by saying in raid groups pallys and rangers are often asked to hand out resists and other buffs. My pally - a kotc - has about 500sp when she enters the quest ... item swaps out an sp item adter initial buffs.

So when starting out is left with maybe half that to spare - for combat ... Zeal and Divine favour are a MUST keep up on a DPS pally.

During the quest you may run low between shrines - like the ToD judge/jailor fight but con-op seems to keep you pretty steady...

Then comes the more prolonged fights at the boss. You shrined again first but usually people raid buff to the hilt... I may be left with 100-200sp before part 3 of ToD elite starts for example ... She'll drop to about 50sp quickly ... zeal/df goes down you put them back up quickly... the mob hitting you back before you need the next rebuff and you never worry that you do not have it for zeal/divine favour. You're at 50-60sp again before it's time to rebuff it.

Thank you very much!

Cheers!

[TheDearLeader]

I swear by con-op on my pally and rangers... fact is no class out there utilizes con-op to the extent that these classes do. When always in the frey you get hit enough.

Let's start by saying in raid groups pallys and rangers are often asked to hand out resists and other buffs. My pally - a kotc - has about 500sp when she enters the quest ... item swaps out an sp item adter initial buffs.

So when starting out is left with maybe half that to spare - for combat ... Zeal and Divine favour are a MUST keep up on a DPS pally.

During the quest you may run low between shrines - like the ToD judge/jailor fight but con-op seems to keep you pretty steady...

Then comes the more prolonged fights at the boss. You shrined again first but usually people raid buff to the hilt... I may be left with 100-200sp before part 3 of ToD elite starts for example ... She'll drop to about 50sp quickly ... zeal/df goes down you put them back up quickly... the mob hitting you back before you need the next rebuff and you never worry that you do not have it for zeal/divine favour. You're at 50-60sp again before it's time to rebuff it.

There is only one place I frequently hear of Paladins being asked to provide resists, and that is Epic VON 6. Couple this with people nowadays having "Boat Buffs", with are normally going to include a couple resists. Currently, it is much easier to ask "Type F if you need Fire", and accommodate the one person in the party/raid who needs it.

If you need to hand out Resists in ToD, something's wrong with your party. I run a caster through there all the time, and even after buffing everyone *Before* Part 1, I still have enough SP *After* Part 1 to buff those same people again, even when I'm on WF Repairing duty. Even when on my Paladin, I don't need to hit myself with Resists, because a Cleric/FvS/Wizzie/Sorc will handle it before they Shrine. And yes, this includes Elite ToD situations.

RE: Zeal and Divine Favor. These last almost 5 minutes @ level 20 with Extend Spell. But, since I know not everyone takes these, lets say they both last 2 Minutes. At a rate of 35 SP per two minutes, that means even if you used 150 of an original 500 SP to buff, that's 20 minutes of non-stop Zeal + Divine Favor. And that is continuous - there are many "breaks" in combat where maintaining these two buffs is not critical, therefore extending the time needed between Shrines. Also, consider that these will outlast your Divine Might clickies, which are 60 Second Duration, and I've found on a KotC with respectable Charisma, these maybe get up to 14 Max (being based on turn attempts).

Honestly, if someone is really that worried about SP on a Paladin... get more SP. Aneist (link in my signature) runs with 630 SP. No swapping, always there. Min II HP GS + Lit II SP GS, on top of other applicable gear.

There's also the possibility of getting a Bauble. Sure, Weapons Shipment is boring, but it's enough to nearly fill most Paladins back up, and should be Solo- or at least Hireling- able.