Tenser's Transformation

[Aspenor]

Too bad you don't have to change the rules to make a custom Divine Power "clickie."

[voodoogroves]

Too bad you don't have to change the rules to make a custom Divine Power "clickie."

Right. Just use these: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...MagicItems.htm

[Lorien_the_First_One]

IIRC originally in PnP D&D (we're talking the beginning here) it was set up that way to make it so caster's couldn't be everything and make other classes useless. This was due to the nature of arcane spells being more offensive in nature than divine spells. Do you feel giving massive spell and decent (maybe good with proper gear) melee abilities to arcanes is ok in DDO?

What is different in PnP is that it would be almost unheard of for casters to have both +4 STR and +4 CON items, never mind the +6 they will eventually wear here. Basically what would be two powerful boosts in PnP are meaningless here. Really a caster gains only the weapons proficiencies in DDO, and they can do that with a level 1 spell. Basically this spell is not balanced for the loot ***** game of DDO.

The other issue of course is divine power clickies wouldn't be available as an option at all in PnP.

[Aspenor]

What is different in PnP is that it would be almost unheard of for casters to have both +4 STR and +4 CON items, never mind the +6 they will eventually wear here. Basically what would be two powerful boosts in PnP are meaningless here. Really a caster gains only the weapons proficiencies in DDO, and they can do that with a level 1 spell. Basically this spell is not balanced for the loot ***** game of DDO.

The other issue of course is divine power clickies wouldn't be available as an option at all in PnP.

Really? I've never played a caster that didn't have, at bare minimum, a +6 con AND main casting stat item. Most have +6 dex too. Of course thats at high level. At 12 or 13 I where the first +6 kicks in.

Artificers get them considerably earlier though.

[voodoogroves]

In PNP initiative is HUGE. Most casters I knew maxed that like crazy one way or the other.

It also helps w/ ranged touch attacks.

As far as stat-items, w/ the Magic Item Compendium, attribute stacking became easy. End-game builds assumed the purchase or creation of a Belt of Magnificence, though (+6 all).

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Really? I've never played a caster that didn't have, at bare minimum, a +6 con AND main casting stat item. Most have +6 dex too. Of course thats at high level. At 12 or 13 I where the first +6 kicks in.

Artificers get them considerably earlier though.

You must play with more loot crazed DMs than I (and have felt right at home when you joined DDO lol)

[Roziel_Longblade]

In PnP, BAB is a much bigger driver of damage than it is in DDO. And is there anyone that uses a spell that provides an enhancement bonus to stats after lvl 5? This negates or at the very least minimizes the 2 things the spell is supposed to give a caster.

If Tensers is to be true to the spirit of the spell rather than the letter of the spell then it needs a revision.

Off Topic -
That infinite loop silliness requires DM's to say yes in so many places that they should say no that it just gets... silly.

As for DDO, even the most Monty Hall of PnP games would not have the loot that drops in DDO. I am happy the devs are adjusting things to balance that fact.

[darkforest]

You do know that no intelligent battle mage uses it right? Instead they carry cleric clickies that give them more for less restrictions. That's a broken spell.

Don't agree. Should have said (in fact I thought you meant):

You do know that non-int based battle mage uses it right? They carry cleric clickies that give them more or less the same until they get Tensers. That can be a broken spell --- empowering a battle mage to drop FW AND melee.

[sephiroth1084]

Excellent news!

Since you're in a talkative mood lately....

Is/has mystic theurge being/been considered at all? Been hoping for that for 4 years now

You apparently didn't get the memo about Mystic Theurge...

[voodoogroves]

You do know that no intelligent battle mage uses it right? Instead they carry cleric clickies that give them more for less restrictions. That's a broken spell.

They didn't use it in PNP either.

Fun read, if you're so inclined ... a guide to Divine Power-based arcane gishes from 3.5 w/o using items...

http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...e_to_DP_Gishes)

[Aspenor]

Another route is this. I used a bunch of items though.

You must play with more loot crazed DMs than I (and have felt right at home when you joined DDO lol)

Not really. Following the Wealth By Level table, it's definitely not unheard of to have +6 items as early as level 13. Technically you should be able to afford one at level 9, but that's literally all that you would own.

[lazylaz]

This was a fun filled thread. I learnt all sorts of things - and some of it even pertained to the topic!

It looks like some people have very lenient DMs though, unless that bazillion attacks per round was just theoretical.

[Aspenor]

This was a fun filled thread. I learnt all sorts of things - and some of it even pertained to the topic!

It looks like some people have very lenient DMs though, unless that bazillion attacks per round was just theoretical.

it is theoretical, it's called theoretical optimization...i.e. not to be used in an actual game.

[Angelus_dead]

Too bad you don't have to change the rules to make a custom Divine Power "clickie."

As already explained, that is false. To create a magic item with Divine Power is against the D&D 3.5 rules, because the rules don't let a player pick an arbitrary spell he knows and imbue it into a magic item.

Sometimes players who glance at Dungeon Master's Guide notice the sidebar that gives advice for DMs who want to use a variant allowing players to invent their own magic items, and mistake it for a rule allowing them to build any item following a certain formula. But they are incorrect, and actually no existing rule lets them do this. Each time the DM authorizes a player's new magic item, it is a new house rule. (The word "Variant" in the heading is a big red flag)

[sephiroth1084]

As already explained, that is false. To create a magic item with Divine Power is against the D&D 3.5 rules, because the rules don't let a player pick an arbitrary spell he knows and imbue it into a magic item.

Sometimes players who glance at Dungeon Master's Guide notice the sidebar that gives advice for DMs who want to use a variant allowing players to invent their own magic items, and mistake it for a rule allowing them to build any item following a certain formula. But they are incorrect, and actually no existing rule lets them do this. Each time the DM authorizes a player's new magic item, it is a new house rule. (The word "Variant" in the heading is a big red flag)

Uh, what?

There are pretty clearly defined, and detailed, ways to create a magic item using any spell. You could make a Greater Magic Weapon clicky in order to increase the plus enhancement on your weapons while enhancing the weapons with more interesting bonuses. The things get pretty **** expensive when you move beyond 1st and 2nd level spells with low caster levels, but they're doable.

[Aspenor]

As already explained, that is false. To create a magic item with Divine Power is against the D&D 3.5 rules, because the rules don't let a player pick an arbitrary spell he knows and imbue it into a magic item.

Sometimes players who glance at Dungeon Master's Guide notice the sidebar that gives advice for DMs who want to use a variant allowing players to invent their own magic items, and mistake it for a rule allowing them to build any item following a certain formula. But they are incorrect, and actually no existing rule lets them do this. Each time the DM authorizes a player's new magic item, it is a new house rule. (The word "Variant" in the heading is a big red flag)

So this imaginary word "variant" that doesn't actually exist where you say it does, where is that, again? Cuz, you know, I don't see that word anywhere near the custom item rules. So, if you can't cough up a page number I'm just going to have to pretty much tell you: wrong.

[Zachski]

For the record, I see where I made my mistake.

I confused Divine Power with Divine Might :-/ sorry.

[lazylaz]

it is theoretical, it's called theoretical optimization...i.e. not to be used in an actual game.

That's good. I can't imagine playing a game with that sort of thing going on

[Angelus_dead]

So this imaginary word "variant" that doesn't actually exist where you say it does, where is that, again? Cuz, you know, I don't see that word anywhere near the custom item rules. So, if you can't cough up a page number I'm just going to have to pretty much tell you: wrong.

That's a curious way to put it. I wonder why you didn't find this answer on your own.

The rule you're looking for is around page 214 of Dungeon Master's Guide (or maybe 178 depending on edition?). I'll go ahead and punch in the whole thing.

VARIANT: NEW MAGIC ITEMS
In the same way that you can invent new spells and monsters for your campaign, you can invent new magic items. In the same way a PC spellcaster can research a new spell, a PC may be able to invent a new kind of magic item. And just as you have to be careful about new spells, you need to be careful with new magic items.
Use the magic item descriptions in this chapter as examples on which to base new magic items. A new magic item needs all the information that similar, existing magic items have, possibly including activation type, activation time, and caster level. You also should be ready to determine the market value of a new magic item, even one that the PCs simply find, in case a character wants to sell or duplicate it.

[Aspenor]

That's a curious way to put it. I wonder why you didn't find this answer on your own.

The rule you're looking for is around page 214 of Dungeon Master's Guide (or maybe 178 depending on edition?). I'll go ahead and punch in the whole thing.

VARIANT: NEW MAGIC ITEMS
In the same way that you can invent new spells and monsters for your campaign, you can invent new magic items. In the same way a PC spellcaster can research a new spell, a PC may be able to invent a new kind of magic item. And just as you have to be careful about new spells, you need to be careful with new magic items.
Use the magic item descriptions in this chapter as examples on which to base new magic items. A new magic item needs all the information that similar, existing magic items have, possibly including activation type, activation time, and caster level. You also should be ready to determine the market value of a new magic item, even one that the PCs simply find, in case a character wants to sell or duplicate it.

So your quote has literally nothing at all to do with Custom Magic Item creation on p. 285. Got it. That "variant" is about creation of entirely new items not defined by the rules already contained within the book. It is not a statement that "creating an item using the rules in this book for custom items is a houserule."

It is instead a statement about creating "new" magic items. In order for it to be "new" it must already not be defined by the existing ruleset.