Savant Prestige Information

[Siskel]

http://my.ddo.com/eladrin/2011/03/17...ire-and-water/

Yesterday I posted some information about the Elemental Savant Prestige Enhancement lines that are coming out for the sorcerer class in Update 9.
Here are the full details that I’ve released so far:

Sorcerer Air Savant I
Prereqs: Level 6 Sorcerer, Storm Manipulation III, Charged Spellcasting I, Deadly Shocks I, Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II, and either Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, or Least Dragonmark of Storm.
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: You have focused your training on elemental mastery over lightning. You gain +2 caster levels when casting electrical and air spells and increase the maximum caster level of these spells by 1, but suffer -3 caster levels when casting acid or earth spells. You gain 5 points of electrical resistance and bypass 5 points of electrical resistance of opponents. You can cast the Shocking Grasp spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain a +2 bonus to saves against paralysis, poison, and sleep, and a +2 bonus to the Tumble skill.

Inherent Shocking Grasp
Benefit: You are able to cast Shocking Grasp as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 1 sp, 3 sec cooldown)

Sorcerer Earth Savant I
Prereqs: Level 6 Sorcerer, Acid Manipulation III, Corrosive Spellcasting I, Deadly Acid I, Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II, and either Empower Spell or Maximize Spell.
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: You have focused your training on elemental mastery over acid. You gain +2 caster levels when casting acid and earth spells and increase the maximum caster level of these spells by 1, but suffer -3 caster levels when casting air or electricity spells. You gain 5 points of acid resistance and bypass 5 points of acid resistance of opponents. You can cast the Acid Spray spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain a +2 bonus to saves against paralysis, poison, and sleep, and a +2 bonus to the Balance skill.

Inherent Acid Spray
Benefit: You are able to cast Acid Spray as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 1 sp, 3 sec cooldown)

Sorcerer Fire Savant I
Prereqs: Level 6 Sorcerer, Flame Manipulation III, Combustive Spellcasting I, Deadly Flame I, Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II, and either Empower Spell or Maximize Spell.
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: You have focused your training on elemental mastery over flame. You gain +2 caster levels when casting fire spells and increase the maximum caster level of these spells by 1, but suffer -3 caster levels when casting cold or water spells. You gain 5 points of fire resistance and bypass 5 points of fire resistance of opponents. You can cast the Burning Hands spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain a +2 bonus to saves against paralysis, poison, and sleep, and a +2 bonus to the Intimidate skill.

Inherent Burning Hands
Benefit: You are able to cast Burning Hands as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 1 sp, 3 sec cooldown)

Sorcerer Water Savant I
Prereqs: Level 6 Sorcerer, Frost Manipulation III, Glacial Spellcasting I, Deadly Ice I, Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II, and either Empower Spell or Maximize Spell.
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: You have focused your training on elemental mastery over ice. You gain +2 caster levels when casting cold spells and increase the maximum caster level of these spells by 1, but suffer -3 caster levels when casting fire spells. You gain 5 points of cold resistance and bypass 5 points of cold resistance of opponents. You can cast the Niac’s Cold Ray spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain a +2 bonus to saves against paralysis, poison, and sleep, and a +2 bonus to the Swim skill.

Inherent Niac’s Cold Ray
Benefit: You are able to cast Niac’s Cold Ray as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 1 sp, 3 sec cooldown)
It’s not just damaging spells that are affected by these enhancements. The following spells were thematically considered appropriate for various savants to excel at:

Air Spells:
Ball Lightning, Chain Lightning, Cyclonic Blast, Electric Loop, Gust of Wind, Eladar’s Electric Surge, Electric Loop, Featherfall, Gust of Wind, Lightning Bolt, Protection from Energy (Electricity), Resist Energy (Electricity), Shocking Grasp, a couple of Summon Monsters
Technically also includes Call Lightning Storm. May be modified to include sonic spells like Shout.

Earth Spells:
Acid Blast, Acid Fog, Acid Rain, Acid Splash, Acid Spray, Burning Blood, Cloudkill, Flesh to Stone, Melf’s Acid Arrow, Meteor Swarm, Protection from Energy (Acid), Resist Energy (Acid), Stoneskin, Stone to Flesh, a couple of Summon Monsters

Fire Spells:
Burning Blood, Burning Hands, Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Fire, Fireball, Fire Shield (Hot), Fire Trap, Flame Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Incendiary Cloud, Meteor Swarm, Protection from Energy (Fire), Resist Energy (Fire), Scorching Ray, a couple of Summon Monsters, Symbol of Flame, Wall of Fire
Technically also includes Flame Strike, Firestorm

Water Spells:
Cone of Cold, Fire Shield (Cold), Frost Lance, Horrid Wilting, Ice Storm, Merfolk’s Blessing, Niac’s Biting Cold, Niac’s Cold Ray, Otiluke’s Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray, Protection from Energy (Cold), Ray of Frost, Resist Energy (Cold), Sleet Storm, Snowball Swarm, a couple of Summon Monsters, Water Breathing
Now, for everyone that’s read this far, a little bit more…

Sorcerer Air Savant II
Prereqs: Level 12 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Air Savant I, Storm Manipulation V, Charged Spellcasting III, Deadly Shocks III, and any one of Spell Focus: Conjuration, Spell Focus: Evocation, or Lesser Dragonmark of Storm.
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have continued to focus your training on elemental mastery over lightning. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting air and electricity spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your acid and earth spells. Your electrical resistance grows to 10 points and you now bypass 10 points of electrical resistance of opponents. You can cast the Electric Loop spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain the ability to render an opponent vulnerable to electrical damage, an additional +2 bonus to the Tumble skill, and have a permanent personal Featherfall toggle.

Inherent Electric Loop
Benefit: You are able to cast Electric Loop as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 3 sp, 4.5 sec cooldown)
Personal Featherfall Toggle
Benefit: You glide slowly through the air, taking no damage from normal falls. (At will.)
Awaken Elemental Weakness: Electricity
Benefit: You are able to curse an enemy, increasing electrical damage they take by 15%. This effect stacks with itself up to five times. (Cost: 5 sp, 20 sec cooldown, 30 sec duration - refreshing a stack restarts its duration)

Sorcerer Earth Savant II
Prereqs: Level 12 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Earth Savant I, Acid Manipulation V, Corrosive Spellcasting III, Deadly Acid III, and any one of Spell Focus: Conjuration or Spell Focus: Evocation.
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have continued to focus your training on elemental mastery over acid. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting acid and earth spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your air and electricity spells. Your acid resistance grows to 10 points and you now bypass 10 points of acid resistance of opponents. You can cast the Melf’s Acid Arrow spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain the ability to render an opponent vulnerable to acid damage, an additional +2 bonus to the Balance skill, 10 additional hit points, and +2 stacking Natural Armor.

Inherent Melf’s Acid Arrow
Benefit: You are able to cast Melf’s Acid Arrow as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 3 sp, 4.5 sec cooldown)
Awaken Elemental Weakness: Acid
Benefit: You are able to curse an enemy, increasing acid damage they take by 15%. This effect stacks with itself up to five times. (Cost: 5 sp, 20 sec cooldown, 30 sec duration - refreshing a stack restarts its duration)

Sorcerer Fire Savant II
Prereqs: Level 12 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Fire Savant I, Flame Manipulation V, Combustive Spellcasting III, Deadly Flame III, and any one of Spell Focus: Conjuration or Spell Focus: Evocation.
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have continued to focus your training on elemental mastery over flame. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting fire spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your cold and water spells. Your fire resistance grows to 10 points and you now bypass 10 points of fire resistance of opponents. You can cast the Scorching Ray spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain the ability to render an opponent vulnerable to fire damage, an additional +2 bonus to the Intimidate skill, and a permanent fire guard effect (deals 1d6 fire damage to opponents that strike you in melee).

Inherent Scorching Ray
Benefit: You are able to cast Scorching Ray as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 3 sp, 4.5 sec cooldown)
Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire
Benefit: You are able to curse an enemy, increasing fire damage they take by 15%. This effect stacks with itself up to five times. (Cost: 5 sp, 20 sec cooldown, 30 sec duration - refreshing a stack restarts its duration)

Sorcerer Water Savant II
Prereqs: Level 12 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Water Savant I, Frost Manipulation V, Glacial Spellcasting III, Deadly Ice III, and any one of Spell Focus: Conjuration or Spell Focus: Evocation.
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have continued to focus your training on elemental mastery over ice. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting cold and water spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your fire spells. Your cold resistance grows to 10 points and you now bypass 10 points of cold resistance of opponents. You can cast the Snowball Swarm spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain the ability to render an opponent vulnerable to cold damage, an additional +2 bonus to the Swim skill, and the ability to breathe water as if it were air.

Inherent Snowball Swarm
Benefit: You are able to cast Snowball Swarm as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 3 sp, 4.5 sec cooldown)
Awaken Elemental Weakness: Cold
Benefit: You are able to curse an enemy, increasing cold damage they take by 15%. This effect stacks with itself up to five times. (Cost: 5 sp, 20 sec cooldown, 30 sec duration - refreshing a stack restarts its duration)


The Awaken Elemental Weakness ability of the Elemental Savants is one of the places they shine in those long fights against major bosses, along with their cheap damage spells that accept metamagics for free. At tier two, the Savants begin to diverge a little more than they did at tier one, gaining some minor bonuses appropriate to their theme. They will continue to diverge some more as they get to tier three, but that’s for another post on another day…

Sorcerer Air Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Air Savant II, Storm Manipulation VII, Charged Spellcasting V, Deadly Shocks V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II, Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II, or Greater Dragonmark of Storm
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over lightning. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting air or electrical spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your acid or earth spells. Your electrical resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of electrical resistance of opponents. You can cast the Lightning Bolt spell as a spell-like ability. You are now immune to most knockdown effects (but not slippery surfaces), can leap through the air with incredible grace, and an additional +2 bonus to the Tumble skill.

Inherent Lightning Bolt
Benefit: You are able to cast Lightning Bolt as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Wind Dance
Benefit: You leap through the air, propelled by a gust of wind. (Cost: 5 sp; Abundant Step effect, 6 sec cooldown)

Sorcerer Earth Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Earth Savant II, Acid Manipulation VII, Corrosive Spellcasting V, Deadly Acid V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II or Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over acid. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting acid and earth spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your air and electricity spells. Your acid resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of acid resistance of opponents. You can cast the Acid Blast spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain the ability to cause earthen hands to grab your opponent rendering them helpless and dealing bludgeoning damage, and an additional +2 bonus to the Balance skill.

Inherent Acid Blast
Benefit: You are able to cast Acid Blast as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Earthgrab
Benefit: Earthen hands grasp your foe, rendering them helpless and dealing bludgeoning damage over time on a failed Reflex save (DC: 10 + Constution Modifier + Sorcerer Level). (Cost: 15 sp, 15 sec cooldown, 12 sec duration)

Sorcerer Fire Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Fire Savant II, Flame Manipulation VII, Combustive Spellcasting V, Deadly Flame V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II or Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over flame. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting fire spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your cold or water spells. Your fire resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of fire resistance of opponents. You can cast the Fireball spell as a spell-like ability. You gain the ability to raise the internal temperature of a living creature to a horrifying degree, and an additional +2 bonus to the Intimidate skill.

Inherent Fireball
Benefit: You are able to cast Fireball as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Heat Death
Benefit: You raise the internal temperature of a living target to lethal levels. The target must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC: 10 + Constitution Modifier + Sorcerer Level) or take 2000 points of fire damage as its blood (or other internal fluid) boils in a horrific manner. Fire creatures are immune to this effect. (Cost: 50 sp, 60 sec cooldown)

Sorcerer Water Savant III
Prereqs: Level 18 Sorcerer, Sorcerer Water Savant II, Frost Manipulation VII, Glacial Spellcasting V, Deadly Ice V, and either Sorcerer Improved Empowering II or Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: You have completed your elemental mastery over ice. You gain an additional +2 caster levels when casting cold or water spells, increase the maximum caster level of these spells by an additional 1, but suffer an additional -3 caster level penalty to your fire spells. Your cold resistance grows to 15 points and you now bypass 15 points of cold resistance of opponents. You can cast the Frost Lance spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain the ability to attempt to lock an opponent in an Icy Prison, dealing cold damage and may freeze them in place, and an additional +2 bonus to the Swim skill.

Inherent Frost Lance
Benefit: You are able to cast Frost Lance as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 6 sp, 6 sec cooldown)

Icy Prison
Benefit: You deal 500 cold damage to your opponent, with a Fortitude save (DC: 10 + Constution Modifier + Sorcerer Level) for half damage, and an additional Reflex save or be encased in ice. Ice creatures are immune to this effect, and the target gets occasional saves to attempt to escape.. (Cost: 25 sp, 60 sec cooldown, 30 sec duration)

Updated post with comments by Eladrin.

Found this on the wiki when looking for information. Anyone else have any info from PAX on the Savants? This is not official, but it all I have seen. Sorry about the formatting. Maybe a Dev can give us some spoilers?

http://ddowiki.com/page/PAX_East_2011_Info

Sorcerer
4 prestige lines up to tier 3
Choices are Acid, Lightning, Fire, Cold
Each tier gives: +DC of that type, - DC of opposing type
+ inherent resist to type, + bypass resist of foes to type
Inherent ability similar to Archmage
Does not require additional AP to gain the spell-like ability

Based on the Massively interview linked, it doesn't sound like DCs

- It says +2 to caster level of spells of favored element
- -3 caster level to spells of opposing school
- free SLA ties to element


That's all the info given in the article.

It's not 100% accurate. The Spell-Like Abilities are dirt cheap, but not free, and accept free metamagics like the Archmage SLA's. They also gain a handful of other benefits, such as increasing the maximum caster level of spells of their favored element. The favored elements are defined wider than merely damage spells - Earth Savants can drop a higher cap Stoneskin on people, for instance.

Sorcerer Earth Savant I
Prereqs: Level 6 Sorcerer, Acid Manipulation III, Corrosive Spellcasting I, Deadly Acid I, Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II, and either Empower Spell or Maximize Spell.
Cost: 4 AP
Benefit: You have focused your training on elemental mastery over acid. You gain +2 caster levels when casting acid and earth spells and increase the maximum caster level of these spells by 1, but suffer -3 caster levels when casting air or electricity spells. You gain 5 points of acid resistance and bypass 5 points of acid resistance of opponents. You can cast the Acid Spray spell as a spell-like ability. You also gain a +2 bonus to saves against paralysis, poison, and sleep, and a +2 bonus to the Balance skill.

Inherent Acid Spray
Benefit: You are able to cast Acid Spray as a spell-like ability. (Cost: 1 sp, 3 sec cooldown)

Oh wow, I almost missed this at first, but look at those prereqs. They're finally splitting the elemental enhancement lines into one per element, instead of one per two elements. Awesome! It was going to be really strange if we had to take the fire/ice line to be a fire-specced sorc, but then get ice penalties to go with our ice benefits.

That's correct.

- Are there new enhancements line or they replace old one?
- Cost of that enhancements must be 1/1/1/1 or something like this (in my opinion) to can be replacement to old one.

They do indeed cost 1/1/.../1. The progression is front loaded a little bit too:

Acid Manipulation I
Prereqs: Level 1 Sorcerer or Wizard
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Grants a 20% increase to the damage of your acid spells.

Acid Manipulation II
Prereqs: Level 3 Sorcerer or Wizard, Acid Manipulation I
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Grants an additional 5% increase to the damage of your acid spells, bringing the total increase to 25%.

There are seven tiers of each, going up to +50% damage in the element.

Storm Manipulation also affects sonic damage.

- Are monsters that are vulnerable already to the, lets say Acid get more damage from Earth Savant?

No. We'd just say "you deal 5 extra damage" if it worked like that.
Edit: Oops, I misread that a little bit. I thought you meant "what happens if you bring resistance below zero". My bad. An acid vulnerable foe will inherently take more damage since your caster level is higher (and partially bypassing the normal cap).

I like that you added in some further benefits to non damaging spells.

A tier III Earth Savant will be casing Flesh to Stone at caster level 26. That could come in useful against certain enemies.

(Let's not look at the Air Savant's FtS caster level, it's a little embarassing.)

I assume the current lore and crit lore got AP/enhancement sliced up in a similar cost value?

They also get split up into 1/1/.../1 lines, but it's a bit more expensive to maximize multiple lines. We front-loaded those as well:

Glacial Spellcasting I
Prereqs: Level 2 Sorcerer or Wizard, Frost Manipulation I
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Grants a 4% chance for cold spells to generate a critical hit. (Base spell critical chance is 0% and critical damage bonus is +50%)

Glacial Spellcasting II
Prereqs: Level 5 Sorcerer or Wizard, Frost Manipulation II, Glacial Spellcasting I
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Grants a 5% chance for cold spells to generate a critical hit.

Up to Glacial Spellcasting VI (9%), and:

Deadly Kinetics I
Prereqs: Level 4 Sorcerer or Wizard, Force Manipulation I, Kinetic Spellcasting I
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Your spell critical multipliers for force spells and spells that deal untyped or physical damage are increased by an additional 25%, bringing your base critical damage bonus with these spells to +75%.

through

Deadly Kinetics VI
Prereqs: Level 19 Sorcerer or Wizard, Force Manipulation VI, Deadly Kinetics V
Cost: 1 AP
Benefit: Your spell critical multipliers for force spells and spells that deal untyped or physical damage are increased by an additional 10%, bringing your base critical damage bonus with these spells to +125%.

Reading fail. Will stoneskin be impacted with a DR change?

We've removed the 150 point cap from stoneskin. (Though Earth Savants would be able to bypass that partially anyway.) Normal level 20 casters will drop 200 point stoneskins, T3 Earth Savants will cast 260 point ones.

Currenty, 3 tier PrEs cost 4/2/2. I would expect the Savants to be the same.

That's correct.

As a player with a "force" based Nuker, I mean Sorceror currently specced for Force Spells I think this underwhelming to say the least.

The change to the kinetic line should be interesting to you then.

Does that mean that Savants can summon an even stronger elemental if they summon their type?

While they do cast their "appropriate" summons at a higher caster level, at this time caster level doesn't modify the creature you gain. We were considering placing an Augment Summoning style buff on creatures of your specialty, but ended up not doing so. Maybe in the future.

In that same token, I'm hoping that air savants get modified Cyclonic and Gusts.

Here's the current list of spells by type:

Air Spells:
Ball Lightning, Chain Lightning, Cyclonic Blast, Electric Loop, Gust of Wind, Eladar's Electric Surge, Electric Loop, Featherfall, Gust of Wind, Lightning Bolt, Protection from Energy (Electricity), Resist Energy (Electricity), Shocking Grasp, a couple of Summon Monsters
Technically also includes Call Lightning Storm. May be modified to include sonic spells like Shout.

Earth Spells:
Acid Blast, Acid Fog, Acid Rain, Acid Splash, Acid Spray, Burning Blood, Cloudkill, Flesh to Stone, Melf's Acid Arrow, Meteor Swarm, Protection from Energy (Acid), Resist Energy (Acid), Stoneskin, Stone to Flesh, a couple of Summon Monsters

Fire Spells:
Burning Blood, Burning Hands, Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Fire, Fireball, Fire Shield (Hot), Fire Trap, Flame Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Incendiary Cloud, Meteor Swarm, Protection from Energy (Fire), Resist Energy (Fire), Scorching Ray, a couple of Summon Monsters, Symbol of Flame, Wall of Fire
Technically also includes Flame Strike, Firestorm

Water Spells:
Cone of Cold, Fire Shield (Cold), Frost Lance, Horrid Wilting, Ice Storm, Merfolk's Blessing, Niac's Biting Cold, Niac's Cold Ray, Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, Polar Ray, Protection from Energy (Cold), Ray of Frost, Resist Energy (Cold), Sleet Storm, Snowball Swarm, a couple of Summon Monsters, Water Breathing

There are many spells that have undergone significant revision. A couple of examples:

Lightning Bolt
SP Cost: 12
Effect: A powerful stroke of electrical energy deals 4 to 6 electricity damage per caster level (up to a max of 40 to 60 damage at caster level 10) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. For each enemy this spell strikes it has a 50% chance to fork, replicating the spell's effect on that target. This can only happen once. This spell is a bolt and has double range. D&D Dice: Deals 1d3+3 electricity damage per caster level (max 10d3+30).

Melf's Acid Arrow
SP Cost: 6
Effect: Deals 2 to 8 acid damage +1 per caster level to a target with a magical arrow of acid for a duration of 12 seconds. The arrow has double spell range. D&D Dice: Deals 2d4+1 acid damage per caster level (max 2d4+20).

Edit: Note - bolt type spells that inherently have double range are no longer affected by the enlarge metamagic. They're essentially enlarged for free. They also track a little bit when cast by players, to help with those long range shots.

When I first read about plans to change the spell system, I was afraid that the new thing will be bad.

Have no fear, I'm sure you'll find something you won't like. Change is bad!

But this time I like the new thing. Are similar spell damage enhancement changes planned for Clr/FvS as well?

At this time only Sorcerers and Wizards have had their damage enhancements split up. We're likely to do something with the other classes in the future.

How will Heighten effect this? Is it still +5 SP per level? Or is Lightning Bolt essentially a 4 SP per level spell?

Metamagics have not changed at this time, heighten is still +5 per level. This does mean that spells like Fireball (15 sp) end up costing significantly more than similar spells like Delayed Blast Fireball (25 sp) when heightened.

Eladrin, can we get a word on whether or not the new spells will be available as scrolls? For those of us with level 20 arcane casters, the only other way to get the new spells is to Reincarnate (Lesser or True).

Genasi says "All of the new spell scrolls will be available in treasure."

[voodoogroves]

DC boosts and reductions are not quite as meaningful for the fire/ice chain where the largest impacting spells are not DC based.

I wonder why they went that route instead of increased damage...

...

That said, elec/acid both have CC effects possible on theirs minimally.

[Fejj]

Things that had better be included (IMO)
- Improved crit chance (stacking)
- Improved damage
- Reduced SP cost
- More SP

Give us sorcerers a reason to once again to laugh at wizards.

OH, and don't make us all take a SF feat. We get shafted on feats as it is. There is no room to spare. PLEASE!!!!!

[TheKeg]

Found this on the wiki when looking for information. Anyone else have any info from PAX on the Savants? This is not official, but it all I have seen. Sorry about the formatting. Maybe a Dev can give us some spoilers?

http://ddowiki.com/page/PAX_East_2011_Info

Sorcerer
4 prestige lines up to tier 3
Choices are Acid, Lightning, Fire, Cold
Each tier gives: +DC of that type, - DC of opposing type
+ inherent resist to type, + bypass resist of foes to type
Inherent ability similar to Archmage
Does not require additional AP to gain the spell-like ability

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ability to bypass the resistance of foes to the element that the Sorc chooses. That has the potential to change some game play significantly from what it currently is. Would this make FW the king again at end game?

[Trillea]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ability to bypass the resistance of foes to the element that the Sorc chooses. That has the potential to change some game play significantly from what it currently is. Would this make FW the king again at end game?

Depends on what you call endgame. If epics, then yes, it will help a lot. If you are thinking Amrath elite, then not so much - unless it reduces immunities (blanket immunities FTL!). Me, I'll be VERY happy with it, as I run epics.

[Coldin]

I believe in the Massively interview they also mentioned that spells from that element of magic would have their spell level increased as well.

[Zue]

i found this piece of info (maybe spoiler alert) here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03...ddos-update-9/

'Sorcerers will be able to become Savants in one of the elemental schools of magic, such as cold, acid or wind. An Elemental Savant gains a free cast ability from that school (which means you can cast it as many times as you want for no spell points) and increases the effective level for every spell in that school by two. The caveat to this, however, is that any spells from the opposing school (such as fire and water) will suffer a three-level debuff to all of those spells, rendering them far weaker than normal.'

[HAL]

I'm not liking the idea of taking a hit in the opposing school. My sorc is ice-specced which means I'd nerf my firewall. Those who take fire will nerf their Polar Ray. Doesn't sound like I'll be taking this PRE that I've been so excited about.

[Trillea]

I'm not liking the idea of taking a hit in the opposing school. My sorc is ice-specced which means I'd nerf my firewall. Those who take fire will nerf their Polar Ray. Doesn't sound like I'll be taking this PRE that I've been so excited about.

So take the electric line. That would give the downside to your acid spells (what, all 4 of them?), give you free electric nukes, and have full access to both firewall and polar ray at full strength, while giving chain lightning a boost.

[Azonalanthious]

There is some potential in the inherent spells to, I think, since from various comments they are a) 0 spell points and b) included in the base line rather then bought separately the way archmages do. That would open doors for say, a crowd control spec'ed sorcerer, who will, yes, be slightly lower then a wiz on save DCs but good enough to do the job and can toss unlimited fireballs around to add to damage once the hold spell has connected. Just skyballing here -- am looking forward to seeing the new prestige in action.

[Xaxx]

wouldnt mind the hit in the oposing school but if that infos correct we take a bigger hit than we get advantage... thts just not worht it

[Saravis]

I was afraid of this happening, Savants have been recognized as a plus and minus PrE, meaning you gain in an area, but thats offset by losing in another area. My problem with this is, what other PrE in DDO has this? None, all other PrEs have nothing but gain. In this case, if I want better effectiveness with my ice spells against devils, I have to sacrifice my fire spells against the variety of other creatures and vice versa. How is this beneficial to Sorcerers?

Another problem is there are not enough high lvl damage spells in acid and electric to really make going that route all that meaningful. Besides chain lightning is a lvl 6 spell, is it worth it to trade out Disint, GH, FtS, or whatever other spell for a little extra oomph on lightning?

I'm really hoping there's a lot more to this, otherwise I'm immensely disappointed.

Now granted if overriding resistance included immunities then wow, but I'm doubtful.

[Missing_Minds]

So take the electric line. That would give the downside to your acid spells (what, all 4 of them?), give you free electric nukes, and have full access to both firewall and polar ray at full strength, while giving chain lightning a boost.

Acid...

acid splash, acid arrow, acid burst, burning blood, cloud kill, acid rain, acid fog. (cloud kill is a special spell any more in DDO thanks to the con damage death change)

Fire has the most number of spells, but also having the most number of mobs resistant/immune against it.

[Seventh]

I think I'd be willing to take the hit, especially since you can always respec enhancements. Go fire, farm epics for a while, swap to ice, farm shroud/amrath. No point in going acid/elect unless they're adding a bunch of spells as well, and I haven't heard any mention of that happening.

And you know, considering the decrease in SP costs that's also coming, it might be worthwhile to just stick to ice. The hit to fire just means you just have to kite through the firewall a little longer that usual, whereas the bump to polar ray damage is pretty significant when combined with the cheaper cost. You could DPS in devil content and epics with the cheap ray and still FW kite when that's necessary (the scaling isn't too bad on FW and the only other fire spell significant at endgame is DBF). And the extra resist would come in handy in ToD.

Of course it could all come down to what the free spammable spells are. If the fire savant's spell is firewall you'd better friggin believe I'm speccing fire.

[Jaid314]

there is no source for that information. just someone who says that's how it will work.

it's not exactly what i would describe as extremely reliable information.

(nothing at all like the favored soul AoV stuff that we've heard about, for example)

[Trillea]

Acid...

acid splash, acid arrow, acid burst, burning blood, cloud kill, acid rain, acid fog. (cloud kill is a special spell any more in DDO thanks to the con damage death change)

Fire has the most number of spells, but also having the most number of mobs resistant/immune against it.

Yes there are several spells but for most of them (acid arrow, burning blood, acid rain, and acid fog) only the duration is affected by caster level, or the damage is only minimally affected by caster level (cloudkill, possibly acid fog). Acid splash is only available in wand form and therefore unaffected by the PrE. Acid spray and acid blast are damage-capped anyway, even after a possible 3 caster level hit. None of these are affected by spell resistance. So a 3 caster level hit to acid spells for a 2 level buff to chain lightning, plus other benefits, could be a really good tradeoff. That said, I may well still go ice focus. After playing a force-specced archmage and seeing that firewall still works pretty well even with NO enhancement points in fire/ice, a 3 caster level hit to firewall may well be worth it for free ice nukes and a stacking caster level bump to polar ray. If it doesn't stack with the caster level bonus from the epic eternal wand however, that would suck.

Alternately, you could use the ice eternal wand to offset 2 of the 3 caster levels lost and go fire-spec if that's your thing too.

[Alexandryte]

there is no source for that information. just someone who says that's how it will work.

it's not exactly what i would describe as extremely reliable information.

(nothing at all like the favored soul AoV stuff that we've heard about, for example)

Thats cuz I was the one who talked with the Devs and posted that. How exactly would you like me to cite a verbal conversation? (I'm honestly asking; I have no clue how you would cite something that I'm going from memory from conversations)

[Jaid314]

I think I'd be willing to take the hit, especially since you can always respec enhancements. Go fire, farm epics for a while, swap to ice, farm shroud/amrath. No point in going acid/elect unless they're adding a bunch of spells as well, and I haven't heard any mention of that happening.

And you know, considering the decrease in SP costs that's also coming, it might be worthwhile to just stick to ice. The hit to fire just means you just have to kite through the firewall a little longer that usual, whereas the bump to polar ray damage is pretty significant when combined with the cheaper cost. You could DPS in devil content and epics with the cheap ray and still FW kite when that's necessary (the scaling isn't too bad on FW and the only other fire spell significant at endgame is DBF). And the extra resist would come in handy in ToD.

Of course it could all come down to what the free spammable spells are. If the fire savant's spell is firewall you'd better friggin believe I'm speccing fire.

the only reason to get excited about wall of fire is mana efficiency. it's damage is actually not all that awesome from any other perspective. i can do substantially more damage by spamming scorching ray (single target) or fireball (for multiple targets), for example.

if we get a free (literally 0 SP cost) spell to spam, i can't say that i'll even care all that much about wall of fire anymore. i use it because it's cheap, not because it's the highest DPS.

[Trillea]

the only reason to get excited about wall of fire is mana efficiency. it's damage is actually not all that awesome from any other perspective. i can do substantially more damage by spamming scorching ray (single target) or fireball (for multiple targets), for example.

if we get a free (literally 0 SP cost) spell to spam, i can't say that i'll even care all that much about wall of fire anymore. i use it because it's cheap, not because it's the highest DPS.

I agree, wall of fire's mana efficiency is unmatched. But it is still awesome DPS when you have a mass of monsters as well and are good at quickly kiting them through 2 properly-spaced firewalls to maximize the passthrough damage.

Edit: If metamagics apply to the free damage spells, I will swap to lightning and probably never look back.

[HAL]

there is no source for that information. just someone who says that's how it will work.

it's not exactly what i would describe as extremely reliable information.

(nothing at all like the favored soul AoV stuff that we've heard about, for example)

How about Massively interviewed Fernando Paiz:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03...e-9/#continued