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Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
So, i have had this discussion with many ppl and can usually get them to agree with me by the end. It is my opinion that the highest dps bard u can make is a pure 20 warchanter.
Now, i have had many ppl disagree and give examples of all the builds previouslt posted here. It is, however based on what ur focus is. Imo, the reason to make a bard is for raids primarily. With that in mind, in a raid of 12 ppl, i can usually count on 8-10 ppl actually swinging a stick and just less than half of those being twf, so i think that +1 dmg per bard song is equivelant to 12.2(thfs-5*1=5, twf-4*1.8=7.2) dmg per hit far,more than any splash will give u.
Now, with this, half-orc is the obvious option, going thf with an esos. Take feats pa, wf, imp. Crit, tough, max, ext, and quicken. Starting stats of max str, enough cha to hit 16 endgame w/o an item (inc capstone for an addition +2 and u start with 10-12), and the rest into con.
Now, on top of being the most dps, this is also the most versatile build having full extended rage/haste, quicken/maxd heals, and a quickened ottos. Ur still able to max perform umd and haggle and one other.
And just for a reference for dps, my bard hits for 80s+, crits for 300+, has 507 hp, heals himself with only emp healing atm, til i get torc for about 160 with cure crit, has a 22 spell pen check w/ no item, and is also probably my most fun toon to play atm.
Scarletdalia Windwalker-Air Savant, Syngh Nswing-Ultimate DPS Bard, Kaehlan Amnell-TWF DPS Completionist-in-the-making , Bloodraynne-Human DPS Fvs, Stiel Kaege-WF THF DPS/Tank.
Leader-Obsidian Dragons, Cannith.
I have a build like this - 16/2/2.
he capped out at 520hp unbuffed, very close to 700 fully buffed. for warchanter, you need 2 feats to qualify - power attack and weapon focus. both can be taken with the 2 lvls of fighter bonus feats, leaving the rest of your feats wide open. Rage isn't a problem, the build doesn't rely on Rage for DPS - it's just nice for longer fights (usually beating on a raid boss) to the extra damage - which doesn't affect your ability to cast spells or scrolls when your not raged.
People think the splash is good because it works. I've seen this build on various races - human, half-orc, drow, ect...My personal preference is human because I'm a healing amp junkie.
You also get extra running speed, sprint boost, fighter haste boost, and another point of fighter strength enhancement.
Maybe a pure 20 warchanter is much closer to this than it used to be with all the perks they gave to warchanters in the last update or two, but there's no reason to put down perfectly good builds that work fine...
for most situations, 2WF will be superior DPS than 2HF - but on a class like this it's not going to make or break your playstyle, be such a big significance that you can't go either way and be happy with it. 2HF is slightly cheaper to gear up as well, since you already have a falchion
Proud member of Renowned, Thelanis server.
I won't disagree that the splash works...
...but the improvements to warchanter with th HOrc line changed everything... I'd recommend going to 16 bard before splashing... if you don't like my suggestions you can always add the splashes.. but if you want to get rid of the splashes... Hearts of Wood are costly...
Do the first 16 lvls pure and see where you are... you'll very very happy with your great axe/maul
Begbie TY Cauthey
-this is not the most dps, without taking the three feats of THF its obvious not the highest dps why say it is it only weakens ur case.
-this is not the most versatile bard build, saying its the most "versatile" pure bard is very close to true but even then it comes down to what you consider worth how much. there is no real general accepted standard on this word in DDO and again i dislike your exaggerations.
as i see it this build could try to fit in lots of small things more without sacrificing anything major,
why not have intimidate also
why not multiclass what makes the capstone so good for a melee bard +1bard/2spell pene song is nice but its hardly versatility
if multi 2 lvls or more lots of other things it could fit in
perfectly understandable you want to recommend a build your very happy with but no need to exaggerate
all this being said a pure 20 is basically never a bad choice
Last edited by testing1234; 03-09-2011 at 06:11 PM.
I use a 16/2/2 dwarf warchanter build which is as follows:
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male (2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) Hit Points: 436 Spell Points: 445 BAB: 16\16\21\26\26 Fortitude: 18 Reflex: 9 Will: 9 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 18 25 Dexterity 8 8 Constitution 20 25 Intelligence 8 8 Wisdom 8 8 Charisma 6 10 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20 Level 1 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting Level 2 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack Level 3 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 4 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Level 6 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Level 9 (Barbarian) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting Level 12 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 15 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 18 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Level 20 (Bard) Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Racial Toughness III Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I Enhancement: Fighter Strength I Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Now the first thing that will strike most people is next to no charisma, this is for 2 reasons, getting a DC/spell pen high enough for Combat casting reduces the dps of the build, granted at the loss of SP. Secondly by maximising str/con you increase your value as a dps build.
Again, feat choice was something i struggled with, currently im using 3 toughness feats, GTHF doesnt seem worth it, and the only other possibilities is maybe power critical? As it stands at level 20 my no Tr'd bardbarian is walking around with 37 str, 31 con and 16 cha, 581 hp and 820 sp. The SP is just enough to GH/blur a raid and chuck a rage down too, there is an arguement that a bard should be able to fully buff a raid/party however i disagree the most important bard buff is the songs, and im happy to chuck down a GH/blur for a sorc/wizzie but I've never had an issue in any raid, and even if i do, just chug an elixir.
This build is really gear orientated (currently using a GS hp and sp item, encrusted ring+belt set, antique GA/min2 ga) but hits for around 70-90 and crits for 210-270, which is pretty good for a support class
Last edited by Drallac; 03-09-2011 at 06:29 PM.
Drallac 16brd/2ftr/2barb- bardbarian
Dralloss 20brd- spellsinger
Drallim- 20clr- dragonmarked radiant healer
I think I plan to go 20 pure warchanter bard again, either human or horc. I will work on getting an esos, but for now, I am sticking with my min II falchion at lvl 12. Max perform, haggle, umd. 34 stat points, so max strength, high con, decent charisma, minimum int, dex, and wis. I can easily get over 20 songs at cap without taking extra song enhancements, especially with the ToD warchanter set already on her. Yes, now that I really think about it, I'm going to lean away from barbarian splashes. I like being able to drop rage, haste, and displacement, as well as aid the divines in FoM and poison neut. whenever someone asks. Thank you for all the feedback, it has really helped me decide what I want!
-Jes
Female long time player from the states, currently residing on Argonessen.. Proud co-leader of Claddagh.
A splash is good if you do it right. It doesn't make your end game suffer at all as long as you do it right.
I like my 16 bard/4 fighter and she does really well if I'm in a group or just soloing.
My songs play for a good amount of time and I get plenty.
The extra HP are always good and so are the Fighter Haste attack boost.
I had a pure melee bard and I LR'd her into with a fighter splash and I do not regret it at all.
I did try out a barbarian splash and I absolutely hated that. The rage was too situational and when raged you couldn't UMD a heal scroll and that really bugged me so I got rid of those 2 levels of barbarian and went back to the fighter.
As long as you know what you are doing, a multiclass is a good thing.
Disappointed and without trust in the powers that be.
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Well, i do apologize for the slight exaggeration, but with twitching the need for thf feats for max dps is minimalized. Also, i was in a little bit of a rush as i read and responded to this while on my lunch from work. There were many points i would have liked to get to, but sadly, i did not. The reason no intim, is for the lack of skill points, would be my next choice however if i had more. The 20 bard is not for the.capstone, thats just a bonus. Lvl 20 is for the final tier of song damage (and as a bonus atk as well). My point is that that 1 extra dmg on song adds more dps to a raid .group than any multiclass could do. Also, my number, 12.2, was ofc an estimate, tho i believe a fair one in its generation, i forgot to account for crits, and assuming no fort, its about an extra 3 or more dmg, depending on the partys gear/builds. And for the versatility, i stick by that one as it is able to cc, heal, raid buff, and do significant dps. The only thing more "versitile" some would say to be rogue abilities, however, as i do not see having those abilities in any way necessary for end game content, i dont count it. That is just my opinion, so to me he is the most versatile, and in fact he is nearly the highest dps (where only sacrificing healing, and casting abilities would change it). Hope this clears it up a little, and just glad i could help.
Scarletdalia Windwalker-Air Savant, Syngh Nswing-Ultimate DPS Bard, Kaehlan Amnell-TWF DPS Completionist-in-the-making , Bloodraynne-Human DPS Fvs, Stiel Kaege-WF THF DPS/Tank.
Leader-Obsidian Dragons, Cannith.
Jes,
What +3/+4 tomes do you have available?
This is an important piece of information when planning a TR.
Whatever build you decide on, make sure you have Maximize and Concentration. I made the feat swap on my main a couple weeks ago and am loving it. Having another member of the party who can quickly throw a cure for 120+ without having to switch to scrolls and UMD gear helps tremendously in sticky situations.
I'm thinking 15/3/2 brd/rog/ftr h-orc would be a good choice for you.
edit: posted before i checked your current gear setup...pure bard might be better
Last edited by Hayday; 03-12-2011 at 04:59 PM.
My life for Aiur!
Alpha - Thelanis
Daylee, Dayylight, Hayburger, Hayday, Haystick, Haywired, Nightshadez
If you got a grind bone in you, go for max cha bard and grab epic dynastic falcatas or elyd edges (elyd edges are easier, but got str as damage modifier). Am on my way there with my own 18/2 bard/rog spellsinger.
Two challenges:
1. grinding the epics (flacata shards are hellish to obtain)
2. managing to cap the build with low str and next to no dps till you cap
Alternative, if you want to go that way: level as str based wc and lr to cha spellsinger or wc
Cheers
Ast
I'll be TRing into this. Eventually.Code:Saecru the Furnace Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male (20 Bard) Hit Points: 326 Spell Points: 692 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 10 Reflex: 12 Will: 12 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 20 30 Dexterity 8 10 Constitution 16 18 Intelligence 12 14 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 10 16 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 +3 Tome of Strength used at level 20 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 3 23 Bluff 0 9 Concentration 7 27 Diplomacy 0 9 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 4 30 Heal -1 0 Hide -1 0 Intimidate 0 7 Jump 9 33 Listen -1 0 Move Silently -1 0 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform 4 30 Repair 1 2 Search 1 2 Spot -1 0 Swim 5 11 Tumble 3 23 Use Magic Device 4 26 Level 1 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Haggle (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Perform (+4) Skill: Tumble (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate Feat: (Automatic) Half-Orc Orc Blood Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General) Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Spell (1): Master's Touch Level 2 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat Level 3 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing Level 4 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Blur Spell (2): Rage Level 5 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Invisibility Spell (1): Focusing Chant Level 6 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion Level 7 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Glitterdust Spell (3): Displacement Spell (3): Haste Level 8 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Bluff (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage Spell (3): Good Hope Level 9 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness Level 10 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Bluff (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Remove Curse Spell (4): Dimension Door Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Level 11 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Break Enchantment Level 12 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Bluff (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II Enhancement: Greatsword Training Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I Enhancement: Orcish Strength I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II Level 13 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing Spell (5): Greater Heroism Spell (5): Shadow Walk Level 14 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Bluff (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Summon Monster V Level 15 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics Level 16 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Bluff (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Grease Spell (5): Mind Fog Spell (6): Heroes Feast Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance Level 17 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds Level 18 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Bluff (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Mass Suggestion Spell (3): Dispel Magic Level 19 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Neutralize Poison Spell (6): Summon Monster VI Level 20 (Bard) Ability Raise: STR Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Haggle (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III Enhancement: Orcish Strength II Enhancement: Improved Haggle I Enhancement: Improved Haggle II Enhancement: Improved Haggle III Enhancement: Improved Haggle IV Enhancement: Improved Perform I Enhancement: Improved Perform II Enhancement: Improved Perform III Enhancement: Improved Perform IV Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
eSos wielding, eMarilith wearing 20 bard, critting for ~300dmg and 90dmg on normal hits.
Still wondering if I should take Maximize for 1 of the Toughness feats for some healing.