SP Management - what am I doing wrong?

[Rienne]

I capped my first toon - pure lvl 20 cleric - a few months ago. Love the class, love the mix of heals and offensive casting, classic first time build with all the meta feats. With standard gear (no GS, but with Amrath clickies, potency weapons, Amrath belts and necklaces) I normally have 1850-2010 sp.

I have been pretty successful, not great, as a healer - raids, all levels of non-raid quests (N/H/E) and some successful epic work as well.

Now the question: I see plenty of forum posts saying they get through most quests and raids without using mana pots or using only 1 or 2 pots. I find that very hard to do - Shroud Part 4 and 5 I'm drinking 3-5 pots each time, VON, TOD and HOX the same thing. I know I keep all the meta feats on and that can be a drain, but is that the problem? People tell me to spam Heal/Mass Heal, so I do, even with other healers in the group/raid. Same with the mass cures, although they are not as SP efficient

Yes I will through in offensive spells as needed (usually limited) and try to use RS aura and burst as much as possible instead of

What to do, what to do? Any advice is welcome, as I am most confused on this point.

[FuzzyDuck81]

spamming them is most likely the problem - it takes a little practice, but try to gauge how fast your group will be taking damage & cast your heals etc accordingly to avoid overhealing, also with a 2nd healer it takes a little practice but you can coordinate your casting to alternate with theirs

[Soleran]

I was worried about SP on my lvl 20 clonk and healing shroud but I found out something very quickly, I dont spam anything.

I cycle mass heal and clwm with empower heal , empower and quicken running. Never drank a pot in shroud, only had one death since I started healing, woops learning curve.

I have 1690 sp, I have not solo healed shroud yet but I have been 20 for about 2 weeks but as far as spell points are concerned watch the lives of your teamates and get a feel for how much your heals fill bars, go from there.

Hope you have fun, it's a good time in there.

[Dros_the_Juggernaut]

Consider dialing back on the Metas if possible. If you have and are using the Amarath clickies you should have Sup Pot 8 available. Combine this with the correct enhancements and you should be ok healing most raids without any metas except perhaps Quicken. That one is really dependant on the party memebers HP and gear they have to mitigate the damage)

So in a nutshell...Potency + Healing/Arcane Lore + Correct Healing enhancements + reasonable party makeup = WIN without Metas and tons of mana pots.

Your mileage may vary but this startegy works for me most of the time. Good Luck

[Dros_the_Juggernaut]

This is pretty true as well IMO...You can get a long way on raids with just Mass Heal spell also.

spamming them is most likely the problem - it takes a little practice, but try to gauge how fast your group will be taking damage & cast your heals etc accordingly to avoid overhealing, also with a 2nd healer it takes a little practice but you can coordinate your casting to alternate with theirs

[Asketes]

1) mass heal is your friend

2) stand somewhere close (not too close so you both get whacked) but close enough to the other healer(s) so you can synchronize your heals. if you both are using un-quickened mass heal. wait 3-4 seconds after he starts casting to cast yours. (something like that, it's a little different every raid/party,but you get the idea)

[Cam_Neely]

Take this from someone that has not played a healer past lv 4. But I want to, and have put some thought in into it.

I think the goal of a healer in shroud 4 should to have one melee die. I see that as a perfect run. Give them a little nudge to get HP up a touch, and it lets the healer know where the edge is. Once you can try to do that and succeed, then shoot for the no death runs.

Sounds like the OP is over healing, mass cures are great, but with your healing ability on a pure cleric +50% from a potencty item, it seems that mass cure mod, with well timed mass heals will get the job done for less sp.

[ArkoHighStar]

Lets look at each individually

Part 4 of the shroud. Yes you can do part 4 without pots, that is to say a cleric should be able to do one round of part 4 without pots. your average lvl 20 cleric with decent gear should be hitting around 1800-2100 sp ( plus any clickies). Mass heal is your friend here and quicken is a must. Mass heal with empower healing on cost about as much as a single heal so spamming this alone should keep your party alive. Now this is predicated on a standard of all melees without evasion having at least 400hp(evasion types can sit in the high 300's without too much worries in most cases).
Generally I will focus on a high dps char like a barb, and make sure everyone including that person knows(this is too avoid having your person being focused on back out). If you have a low hp group you need to make them back out when the blades come in (better to go 2 rounds then have everyone die in the blades). Mass cures can be cast if you have no choice but make them count as they are more expensive than a mass heal when metaed. Have your aura going to heal any ranged or other casters who are in your area.
Also when you first pop in and fight the scouting parties have your aura going as main healing measure to avoid wasting mana.

VOD
VOD can be tough on healers if you are not careful, especially if your main tank is not WF. Healing aura is of great help here as there are plenty of slow periods in this raid and generally only one char is tanking boss damage.

Hound
You have 2 phases keep the aggro tank alive and then keep the dogs alive. Scrolls can help here, also if you have 2 cleric(fvs), this should be really easy on normal. Make sure the dogs get all the buffs they can to help them survive longer. Also generally only dog is taking damage at a time so healing on scrolls is more viable.

TOD
This one takes a good group, part 1-2 your aura can help out a lot and part 3 hopefully only 1 person has boss aggro and thus heals should be enough

[Original]

1) mass heal is your friend

2) stand somewhere close (not too close so you both get whacked) but close enough to the other healer(s) so you can synchronize your heals. if you both are using un-quickened mass heal. wait 3-4 seconds after he starts casting to cast yours. (something like that, it's a little different every raid/party,but you get the idea)

I stand as close as possible, but with torc, concord opp and all my guards :P

[Kriogen]

It's not just you.

For Shroud part 4 and 5, the best mana saver is melee DPS. One round pt 4 is 'cheap', multiple rounds is expensive.

For VOD, TOD type raids high quality intimitank makes a huge difference.

Who's buffing, you or arcanes? You have Bard in the group?

It has a lot to do with how good group is.

[grodon9999]

My clonk has about 1850 SP, only time I have to drink a pot is Evon6 if I have a bunch of retards on my base who can't uses a safe-spot.

The only meta-magic I leave on is Empowered Healing. I use that and the Amrath Clickies. Mass-heal does most of my heavy-lifting as I typically don't run with people who don't have enough HP to survive the cooldown (if they don't, and die, I'm not that concerned).

The aura does a LOT of top-off healing. I also use a lot of scrolls to stretch out my SP.

Best advice I can give is stop running with gimps.

[Jaysensen]

I know I keep all the meta feats on and that can be a drain, but is that the problem?

Quicken, Max, Empower, Empower Healing all on at the same time?

I rarely leave all on - rather toggle Max and Empower off depending on the quest. Everyone hit the important points IMO. It kinda all depends on the group and quest.

[Rienne]

I appreciate the quick response for this question. Advice makes sense, now I need to try it out. I think one of my challenges is overhealing, so I will turn off some of the metas and rely more on the clickies and gear combos and see what happens.

Raid heal timing and coordination is still my puzzle - putting aside the inevitable 1-shot deaths (which I still hate even if the melee is too squishy) - I still aim to land the mass heal or mclw/mcmw/etc at 75% of the primary target's bar, but often "double heal" as the other cleric/FVS/bard is doing the same. As I read on the forums, melees get twitchy at 50% or lower on most raids. Am I too generous or should I watch the animation of the other healer to time it?

Just aiming for perfection, that's all (not really, but my pride pushes me to go for the no-death runs).

Thanks again for the comments.

[Acehole31]

My cleric has 34 wisdom and 2256 SP (Wizardry VII, SP conc opp goggles). The metas I keep running are extend, empower healing, and quicken. Even then, I'll turn quicken off for any buffing I may doing and extend may go off situationally. That said, he solo heals Shrouds every time he needs to run it and never needs to use pots.

Some tips:

-Use metas only when you need it as I do; Quicken + emp heal in combat situations, quicken off and extend only situationally outside of combat.

-Archmagi, conc opp, Wisdom +6 (or +7 if epic), +1 and +2 exceptional wisdom bonuses from whatever source you choose to use to obtain those help.

-Superior Potency VI necklaces can be obtained in Amrath easily - My cleric wears Torin's Choker for that purpose currently. That means your mass cure lights and mass cure mods are just as good or better than your mass cure serious and criticals. I crit for 320-350 on these two masses, which is easily good enough to spot hjeal between the Mass Heal (If needed).

-Charisma should be at least 18 with a +6 item. That should give you 13 or so Turn Undeads, which translates into 13 auras/bursts for a Radiant Servant. As has been said, the aura is magnificent for topping off HP and can also be used in certain situations as MAIN healing (only if you know exactly what you're doing) thereby saving you mana. (disclaimer: Don't rely on aura as main healing in heavy combat situations.)

-Gauge not only your abilities, but the abilities of your party. If your group has 6 barbarians chances are you can pick one to anchor on and drop your mass hjeals on. The party will be fine with nothing but mass heals, with the occasional mass cure light to ensure they are topped off. If your party consists of low hit dice members, then you might want faster casting such as mass cure lights and moderates, and anchor on the highest hit dice class you can. Since the cast is much faster you can alternate between the two masses as needed. This is a much higher drain on your mana pool, so try and time it so it catches them just in time.

-Do NOT be afraid to let those who dump CON and think Heavy Fort is a big castle die and let them stay dead. Your mana is better spent keeping up the DPS who bring the gear required to stay alive long enough to survive between mass heals than it is to keep ressing that level 20 barbarian with 25% fortification and less than 300 HP (TRUE FREAKING STORY!!!).

-Scrolls, scrolls, scrolls! There are many Epics out there that I can hjeal using ONLY scrolls and aura...Claw of Vulkoor, Partycrashers, and Bargain of Blood, just to name a few. Sure, they're relatively simple especially with an Arcane who knows their craft, but the point is that a stack of heal scrolls can mean the difference between using major pots just to make it to the shrine and skipping the shrine altogether.

-Obtain Ardor items (Ardor potions, clickies such as the belts from Amrath). They increase your healing efficiency greatly for a time...Wonderful for certain situations such as pt 4 and 5 of Shroud. Also, obtain SP regeneration clickies: Vile Blasphemy from Accursed Ascention, Mysterious Bauble from the Weapons shipment, Ring of Spell Storing from Menechtaraun rares, Twisted Talisman (normal AND epic versions) from the Last Stand, even the Archivists' Necklace from Korthos is worth 40-50 SP between fights. You get these and you'll see your mana bar go SO much further.

-Unless you are built for it, stay out of combat situations. My cleric can take a beating, but he's not specced for melee. In fact, I built him for offensive casting but I simply fail at it so he's just a healbot. I prefer to stand back, ensure the DPS maintains their DPS, and usually will let my aura and bursts do my self healing while my mana takes care of my party. I find doing this to be extremely fun and if I'm healing chances are the group will succeed. Build your toon to survive no matter if you're a healbot or offensive cleric and you won't expend as many resources on yourself, thus you have more resources to spend on your party.

[Lost_Leader]

Quickest and easiest tip I can think of for spell point conservation in end boss situations is to turn off maximize and empower and run with only empower healing for boosting metas.

A few other tips I would give:

Take advantage of your aura and burst curing. If you're quick with your metas you can toggle them on to burst then back off for mass healing.

Use your Amrath clickies. Especially the Ardor, though the efficacy can be nice, too, for the higher level cure masses. There is a description error in single effect spell boosting clickies, they should actually read 75% amplification, not 50%. So your Ardor clickies crank up your healing more than just using a potency/efficacy item.

Sometimes it is better to let a mana sink squishy die than it is to try to keep them alive. The 285 hp rogue may deal great damage, but if trying to keep just one extra person alive is causing you to use too much extra power, then just let them to their fate. People who can survive between mass heals with a couple of spot cure/heal/auras are much more power efficient, even if it takes a bit longer to kill.

Try to gauge the capabilities of your allies and adjust accordingly. The variance here is too long to detail, but a couple of examples: Light Monk - ask for aligning the heavens - they tend to forget they can do that for you. Is bard a spell singer or healing specced? Can the casters help repair any WF? How much healing amp and max HPs does your MT have - adjust when you heal. Are there other healers in your party, and how often/well do they heal?

Also remember, sometimes the party sucks. I have solo healed many a shroud/Hound/VoD/ToD and even a few EV6. Many times they take minimal or no resources, but sometimes they take quite a bit more. Even with the exact same classes in say, a shroud group, one group will take no resources and the blades wont reach the middle and the other will be a 3 rounder part 4. It isn't all about you, though as the healer you may very well have the power to make any suck group win... if you are willing to pay the piper in resources.

[biggin]

Heal on a timed basis, not based on HP. If some die, let them go. Why spend more on pots than you would on just buying the ingredients from the AH? I regularly solo heal this on my clonk, some pure PuGs, and I just cycle mass heals with mass lights, empower, emp heal, and quicken going. The only people who can't live with that are seriously low HP or low healing amp gimpos. And if you are in there with another divine, have them spam cometfalls instead of updating their Facebook status.

[protokon]

Heal on a timed basis, not based on HP. If some die, let them go. Why spend more on pots than you would on just buying the ingredients from the AH? I regularly solo heal this on my clonk, some pure PuGs, and I just cycle mass heals with mass lights, empower, emp heal, and quicken going. The only people who can't live with that are seriously low HP or low healing amp gimpos. And if you are in there with another divine, have them spam cometfalls instead of updating their Facebook status.

my last facebook status update:

pikin the shroud while my bwest fwiend bigginhoss solo healz parts 4 and 5 LAWL!

[bryanmeerkat]

Also dont spam RS bursts when clearing trash , use your aura pretty much all the time and stay closish to the melee , unless this is getting you too much damage . (mainly when dealing with non epic trash ) this shoud stop you having to cast much healing at all

[PNellesen]

Lets look at each individually

Part 4 of the shroud. Yes you can do part 4 without pots, that is to say a cleric should be able to do one round of part 4 without pots. your average lvl 20 cleric with decent gear should be hitting around 1800-2100 sp ( plus any clickies). Mass heal is your friend here and quicken is a must. Mass heal with empower healing on cost about as much as a single heal so spamming this alone should keep your party alive. Now this is predicated on a standard of all melees without evasion having at least 400hp(evasion types can sit in the high 300's without too much worries in most cases).
Generally I will focus on a high dps char like a barb, and make sure everyone including that person knows(this is too avoid having your person being focused on back out). If you have a low hp group you need to make them back out when the blades come in (better to go 2 rounds then have everyone die in the blades). Mass cures can be cast if you have no choice but make them count as they are more expensive than a mass heal when metaed. Have your aura going to heal any ranged or other casters who are in your area.
Also when you first pop in and fight the scouting parties have your aura going as main healing measure to avoid wasting mana.

This has been my experience as well, and is how I've learned to heal Part 4. Pretty much quickened, timed Mass Heal is all I use, unless the lag is really bad, then I'll throw a MCMW (w/ Empower Heal and Superior Ardor VI clickie going) in between cool-downs just in case. I can't remember the last time I used a pot in Part 4, and with a good group finishing in 1 round, I usually end up with around 1/2 my SP left (this is NOT solo-healing, though - haven't quite worked up the confidence to try that yet)

VOD
VOD can be tough on healers if you are not careful, especially if your main tank is not WF. Healing aura is of great help here as there are plenty of slow periods in this raid and generally only one char is tanking boss damage.

Haven't done this on my Cleric yet, but have run it a number of times on my Level 20 Ranger, and that seems to be how most Clerics do it, with a burst tossed in now and then as well as the aura.

[DelverRootnose]

...healing lore gloves from reavers fate raid. Get the power drain gloves from abbot. If you have bard or somone with UMD ask them to res anyone who dies if possible.