Question about splash

[Skinned]

I created my new wizard. I intend on going the Pale Master route. I'm still low level (4) and doing quite alright. I plan on using a UMD build so I can throw scroll heals around plus it's useful for many other things. I've also been putting points into Move Silently and Hide, since Wraith Form gives bonus's to that and it seems like it might be useful later on.

Right now I'm wiz4 and thinking I should have put the first two levels in rogue.
Can I be successful on my current route? Or should I go 2/18 rog/wiz for what I want to do?
I'm not VIP but I have 32 point builds and vet status, and several adventure packs and a few other characters.
Resources isn't a problem, just wish I haven't used that set of +1 stat tomes ^^

Question is, should I reroll and take two rogue levels and get a high UMD/move silently/hide initially?
Or is Hide/Movesilently with wraithform still ineffective for sneaking around when I want too?

[augie]

If you're going to splash rogue into a wizard build, it's almost always best to start level 1 as a rogue for the crazy amount of skill points that they get. After that, take your 2nd level or rogue whenever it works out for you.

Hide/Move Silently are somewhat useful if you plan on soloing quests at a slow pace (a.k.a. sneaking) or if you are in a group of like-minded, slow-down-and-smell-the-roses kind of groups. Otherwise there are definitely more useful skills to invest in.

Other skills to boost would be your rogue skills of Open Lock, Disable Device and Search, along with UMD, Concentration, Jump, Balance, Tumble (1 is all you need) and maybe Haggle or somethin. Spot and Listen are generally more useful in the long run as it allows you to "sense" hiding mobs by their footsteps or faint outlines as well.

But if your play style benefits more from Hide and Move Silently, more power to ya.

At this point, if you stick with what you got, it's not going to mean your character will be forever "gimped" as you still have a lot of levels ahead of you to redirect your skill points the direction you want. Plus you've already invested the +1 tomes. Roll with the character and learn from it.

However since you have Vet status, rerolling to take Rogue at level 1 will get the most bang-for-the-buck with regards to skill points. The +1 tomes you may lose in the deal won't necessarily make or break you either if you're already starting with a 32 point build.

[Khorae]

If you plan on taking the rogue lvls, then you'll need to reroll.

Rogue 1
Wiz 2-8
Rogue 9
Wiz 10-20

Take Insightful Reflexes at lvl 9 to augment your newly aquired evasion. You'll want to wait till lvl 9 so you'll have access to firewall at lvl 8.

Move silently is better than hide as you can use invisibility. On my PM 18/2 I'm able to solo stealth Epic Claw of Vulkoor in Wraith Mode w/o any skill points invested in MS or Hide. I put on some MS boots, but not sure if that's overkill.

If you're going to splash rogue, you'll only have enough skill points to max concentration, DD, Search and UMD. You'll be able to add in points here and there into open lock and spot (but you really don't need that high of any open lock). And you'll be able to catch up in open lock and spot when you take your second rogue lvl at 9. There's not really any room to take MS or Hide if going this route. You could drop Spot completely if you know where all the traps are, but spot is still very nice to see those hidden mobs.

[justhavinfun]

As a wiz do you really need open lock since you can get the knock spell at level 3?

[Khorae]

As a wiz do you really need open lock since you can get the knock spell at level 3?

No, but there's nothing worse than casting the spell 3-5 times before it works and watching your (already low) blue bar diminish. You'll reach a higher DC with a moderate amount of points invested, dex item, +5 tools and OL item.

[Skinned]

No, but there's nothing worse than casting the spell 3-5 times before it works and watching your (already low) blue bar diminish. You'll reach a higher DC with a moderate amount of points invested, dex item, +5 tools and OL item.

So just using Knock scrolls like I do now isn't gonna cut it I see. I was mainly going to take rogue just for the stealth and evasion. I already have insightful reflexes, seemed like a no brainer because my dex isn't that great.

If I take two levels of rogue would it hurt my DC much?

[wax_on_wax_off]

If you plan on taking the rogue lvls, then you'll need to reroll.

Rogue 1
Wiz 2-8
Rogue 9
Wiz 10-20

Take Insightful Reflexes at lvl 9 to augment your newly aquired evasion. You'll want to wait till lvl 9 so you'll have access to firewall at lvl 8.

Move silently is better than hide as you can use invisibility. On my PM 18/2 I'm able to solo stealth Epic Claw of Vulkoor in Wraith Mode w/o any skill points invested in MS or Hide. I put on some MS boots, but not sure if that's overkill.

If you're going to splash rogue, you'll only have enough skill points to max concentration, DD, Search and UMD. You'll be able to add in points here and there into open lock and spot (but you really don't need that high of any open lock). And you'll be able to catch up in open lock and spot when you take your second rogue lvl at 9. There's not really any room to take MS or Hide if going this route. You could drop Spot completely if you know where all the traps are, but spot is still very nice to see those hidden mobs.

I'd put off the the second rogue level. Spells gained at 9 wizard (cone of cold, hold monster), 11 wizard (disintegrate, flesh to stone), 12 wizard (another tier of PrE), 13 wizard (Finger of Death) are more valuable than the second rogue level. If I was doing the splashed pale master build I would do monk instead of rogue for the sake of the extra feats and putting to use some of the unarmed options that pale master has for soloing.

[Rawel_San]

<snip>
Hide/Move Silently are somewhat useful if you plan on soloing quests at a slow pace (a.k.a. sneaking) or if you are in a group of like-minded, slow-down-and-smell-the-roses kind of groups. Otherwise there are definitely more useful skills to invest in.
<snip>

This is what I also thought for a long time. That sneaking/stealth was the slow way to do quests. Then I watched some
of Mr.Cow's videos. He sneaks a lot of quests and invises through many more and if you can beat his times with a full
pug group going at it hack and slash hat off to you, I certainly can't. A stealthy approach is definitely not nescessarily
a slow approach.

As to the OP if you're going to go for a UMD that allows you to use heal scrolls I would recomend splashing 2 rogue levels unless
you are fairly dedicated. You can get 39 UMD on a pure wizard but it will be tricky and takes quite a bit of gear. If you are going
to take 2 rogue levels then I would definitely take one at lvl 1. The extra skill points are very handy even if you will have quite
a few as a wizard.
Just my 2 copper,
Rawel

[Phidius]

...
If I take two levels of rogue would it hurt my DC much?

1 point of DC, 2 points of Spell Penetration.

The loss of the Wizard bonus feat at 20 makes it tougher to get the pre-reqs for Archmagi/Pale Master, but it's still do-able.