Devs: Barb PL WAI? Scheduled for nerf? Y/N?

[sephiroth1084]

It's been a while since I've seen this topic up, and since I'm thinking about TRing my barbarian soon and answer to this would be relevant.

To wit:
The Barbarian Past Life feat reads that it grants +1 HP/level (I believe this is bugged and is capped at 5 or something; is that true?), +2 Intimidate, and a 1/rest clicky of Rage (+4 Str/Con, +2 Will) that lasts for 30 seconds.

It also currently grants a stacking bonus to all of your rages of +4 Str/Con, +2 Will and something like a +50% duration to your normal rages. Is THIS WAI? Is it slated for changing?

I will point out that the feat without the hidden portion is almost entirely useless: the clicky has too short a duration and is usable too infrequently to be worth a feat slot and the HP portion doesn't count as Toughness for AP or prerequisites so it can't replace the more useful feat either. In contrast, the Paladin PL feat overs better or equal DPS (+4 Str can be +2 or +3 damage depending on weapon type, while Divine Favor ends up at +3 damage), a better bonus on attack rolls (+3 vs. +2) and can last for up to around 10 minutes, and doesn't come with a penalty to AC or fatigue following.

[Cinderbeard]

I very much hope they won't change it to the way the feat is described.

The minor HP boost is neglectable. +2 intimi is maybe somewhat usefull for the barbarian intimidation enhancement, but a lot of barbs only reach a trash mobs intimi score anyway, or don't bother with intimi at all.

A 30 second rage once per rest which get's you exhausted for a minute? really?

I like the way it's working and it's in line with other usefull PL feats like Pal/Mnk/Rog...
If they do decide to change it pls change it to something still usefull, otherwise I see nobody spending a feat on it with a feat starved class.

[sephiroth1084]

A response would be greatly appreciated!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

A response would be greatly appreciated!

I'm too lazy to search for it but when this was first raised one of the devs stopped by the thread and said that it was not WAI, that it was supposed to work as per the description, and that we should expect it to eventually be changed. (But I agree with you, it makes far more sense this way and would be useless as written)

[Cetus]

A while ago I posted a thread with a series of screenshots depicting my feat transition from a toughness to a barb PL, and I lose 17 hp. So, yes, its true that the hp aspect of it is broken- and still no dev response on it.

I'd love the hp aspect of the feat to be fixed to what the description reads- it would create a reason to take it on non-barbs, otherwise its only useful on a barb because of an effect that isn't in the description.

[sephiroth1084]

I'm too lazy to search for it but when this was first raised one of the devs stopped by the thread and said that it was not WAI, that it was supposed to work as per the description, and that we should expect it to eventually be changed. (But I agree with you, it makes far more sense this way and would be useless as written)

From what I recall, that discussion was about more than just this feat (in particular, I think much of the conversation was about the barbarian capstone providing an alacrity bonus), and the response was a general one along the lines of: things that are providing effects different from their description will be fixed.

While that implies that this will be fixed, I'm not wholly satisfied with that response since it, A) wasn't directed specifically at this, and B) doesn't account for this being too weak to ever bother picking up except maybe on a fighter who is at a loss for something else to take, which would need to be addressed if it were returned to its described function.

A while ago I posted a thread with a series of screenshots depicting my feat transition from a toughness to a barb PL, and I lose 17 hp. So, yes, its true that the hp aspect of it is broken- and still no dev response on it.

I'd love the hp aspect of the feat to be fixed to what the description reads- it would create a reason to take it on non-barbs, otherwise its only useful on a barb because of an effect that isn't in the description.

Why would anyone take it? Maybe in place of a second or third Toughness, but definitely not in place of a first, which relegates it to a feat that a fighter or monk may take? Is the 30 second clicky and +2 Intimidate worth more than an extra couple hit points (Toughness grants more than 20)?

[Stamp3de]

Yes pls fix this feat.
Fix it only granting 5 hp instead of 20 and fix the rage duration.
30 seconds is laughable. It should at the VERY least be made to scale with your con score like regular barb rage does, or increase the number of uses.

[Cetus]

From what I recall, that discussion was about more than just this feat (in particular, I think much of the conversation was about the barbarian capstone providing an alacrity bonus), and the response was a general one along the lines of: things that are providing effects different from their description will be fixed.

While that implies that this will be fixed, I'm not wholly satisfied with that response since it, A) wasn't directed specifically at this, and B) doesn't account for this being too weak to ever bother picking up except maybe on a fighter who is at a loss for something else to take, which would need to be addressed if it were returned to its described function.

Why would anyone take it? Maybe in place of a second or third Toughness, but definitely not in place of a first, which relegates it to a feat that a fighter or monk may take? Is the 30 second clicky and +2 Intimidate worth more than an extra couple hit points (Toughness grants more than 20)?

Essentially it would be a flavor feat- you give up 2 hp ( since toughness gives 22hp) but you get 2 points of intimidate if you're character uses it, and a 30 second 4str/4con clickie. All it does is provide some kind of a reason to take it on anything other than a barb. Maybe give the clickie a con-based duration. Not a steep one, but something like 2sec/con modifier would help it.

[Eladrin]

...when this was first raised one of the devs stopped by the thread and said that it was not WAI, that it was supposed to work as per the description, and that we should expect it to eventually be changed.

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

[Cetus]

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

Thank you for chiming in eladrin! Any intention of fixing the description error relatively soon? (the 1hp per character level one)

[Stamp3de]

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

So it suppose to be more than one use?

[timetorun177]

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

So generally it's intended to be completely worthless once it's nerfed? Gotcha. I guess that's just going to be another one of those past lifes that nobody ever takes when they TR (ie, cleric, fvs, ranger). Gotta wonder why they were designed to begin with seeing as nobody is going to implement them.

[Cetus]

So generally it's intended to be completely worthless once it's nerfed? Gotcha. I guess that's just going to be another one of those past lifes that nobody ever takes when they TR (ie, cleric, fvs, ranger). Gotta wonder why they were designed to begin with seeing as nobody is going to implement them.

Well an intereting question to ask would be, should purchasable past lives be of the type that benefits classes other than its own?

Fighter: full bab and 4 attack can be beneficial to a multitude of melee builds
Wizard: magic missile clickies, +1 to all DC's- beneficial to a multitude of casters
Sorc: essentially a mental toughness with Free nukes: again, beneficial to multitude of spellcasters
Pally: great for any melee
Rogue: great for any non-main tank, also enhances all skills.
Bard: enchantment DC and a little bard song
Ranger: barkskin clicky...has general ac benefit.

list goes on with multi-class purpose purchasable past lives


Yet monks and barbarian only benefit THEMSELVES. Such direct synergy is a bit excessive imo as well.

[Roman]

Good to hear confirmation from a Dev. Thank you!

It makes sense that the feats are a bit "meh". If they were too good, then feat rich builds that could easily fit them in would be at an advantage over say a pure pally, barb, sorc, etc... But that said, some of these past life feats really could use a bit more. Some are just completely useless in their current form.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

Yeah, this is one time I'm not real happy being right...

Consider that 30 second rage that results in fatigue is near useless. If you do get around to that change at least consider making it 1 minute with no fatigue so that its more balanced with the rogue PL clickie.

Oh, and thank you for stopping by Dev info is insight is always appreciated.

[sephiroth1084]

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

Thank you for chiming in, Eladrin.

Whenever this gets addressed, could you adjust the feat to be worth taking?

My suggestions are:
-Have it count as Toughness for unlocking enhancements and for prerequisite purposes
-Either extend the duration to 1 minute and give 3 clickies of Rage without the fatigue at the end
or
-Give it a duration that scales with Con as real rages do
-Consider retaining some of its stacking benefit for barbarians, but drop it to mimic the Rage spell (+2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Will, -2 AC); maybe advance the penalty for rage ending to cause Exhaustion, and even with Tireless Rage, this would cause fatigue

[Cetus]

Thank you for chiming in, Eladrin.

Whenever this gets addressed, could you adjust the feat to be worth taking?

My suggestions are:
-Have it count as Toughness for unlocking enhancements and for prerequisite purposes
-Either extend the duration to 1 minute and give 3 clickies of Rage without the fatigue at the end
or
-Give it a duration that scales with Con as real rages do
-Consider retaining some of its stacking benefit for barbarians, but drop it to mimic the Rage spell (+2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Will, -2 AC); maybe advance the penalty for rage ending to cause Exhaustion, and even with Tireless Rage, this would cause fatigue

As far as the last point goes, I believe that it should still grant dps benefit as it does now, just not exclusively to barbarians. It would fit the overall trend of usefulness of past life feats for several classes, with monk being the only exception.

[Thrudh]

It's been a while since I've seen this topic up, and since I'm thinking about TRing my barbarian soon and answer to this would be relevant.

To wit:
The Barbarian Past Life feat reads that it grants +1 HP/level (I believe this is bugged and is capped at 5 or something; is that true?), +2 Intimidate, and a 1/rest clicky of Rage (+4 Str/Con, +2 Will) that lasts for 30 seconds.

It also currently grants a stacking bonus to all of your rages of +4 Str/Con, +2 Will and something like a +50% duration to your normal rages. Is THIS WAI? Is it slated for changing?

I will point out that the feat without the hidden portion is almost entirely useless: the clicky has too short a duration and is usable too infrequently to be worth a feat slot and the HP portion doesn't count as Toughness for AP or prerequisites so it can't replace the more useful feat either. In contrast, the Paladin PL feat overs better or equal DPS (+4 Str can be +2 or +3 damage depending on weapon type, while Divine Favor ends up at +3 damage), a better bonus on attack rolls (+3 vs. +2) and can last for up to around 10 minutes, and doesn't come with a penalty to AC or fatigue following.

I agree they shouldn't change it... The feat is nearly worthless without the "bug"

[Molotov]

ugh, I had a feeling it wasn't wai, now we all know for sure it will be changed soon

[Thrudh]

This is still correct. The past life is essentially intended to provide extra rages (generally to a non barbarian class), not improve existing ones.

Please increase the rage clickable to 1 minute, and 3/day then...

30 second 1/day (with a 1 minute exhaustion!) is near worthless.