What is meaningful AC?

[karl_k0ch]

Hello Fighter forum. This is my first thread in this subforum. Please be gentle.

I am thinking about some non-Fighter-based AC tank builds and I hope that I this is the best place to ask questions about armor. I am aware that AC involves quite some grind, which should not be started unless you are sure you can obtain a meaningful AC. But which AC values are reasonable milestones?
Which raids can/should be AC-tanked at all?

[blitzschlag]

Hello Fighter forum. This is my first thread in this subforum. Please be gentle.

I am thinking about some non-Fighter-based AC tank builds and I hope that I this is the best place to ask questions about armor. I am aware that AC involves quite some grind, which should not be started unless you are sure you can obtain a meaningful AC. But which AC values are reasonable milestones?
Which raids can/should be AC-tanked at all?

i'd say ac is an addition and should never be the primary goal for a melee class. ac does not kill stuff

anyway. reasonable values

60+ everything pre shavarath
70+ shavarath
80+ tod tanking (with good chance of mitingating damage through ac)
95+ you start seeing a slight difference in epic quests

you can't ac tank a raid. you can hate tank or intimidate. ac helps both but is no necessity.

[karl_k0ch]

i'd say ac is an addition and should never be the primary goal for a melee class. ac does not kill stuff

So the Defender of Siberis PrE is of similar usefulness as Deepwood Sniper?

[blitzschlag]

So the Defender of Siberis PrE is of similar usefulness as Deepwood Sniper?

no, why you come to the conclusion? the ac bonus is the weakest bonus the pre has to offer

[Fejj]

Some quick math for "reasonable" AC

Normal - Quest level x 2 + 20
Hard - Quest level x2.5 +20
Elite - quest level x3 +20

So a level 14 quest, on normal - (14 x 2 ) +20 = 48 AC for noticeable misses (Gianthold quests)

[Zenako]

The answer to the question really depends on how you play.

One can achieve almost unhittable AC up thru level 10 without excessive grind, especially if you are running most quests on only Normal/Hard.

If your goal is highly useful AC on Elite and End Game quests, then it requires some serious focus and often grind and specific builds to achieve those extreme levels.

Meaningful AC is AC that makes a quest easier for you (solo) or a group to complete.

If popping on that +5 Plate lowers the chances of the mobs hitting you, then you take less damage (assuming you did not have evasion) and that makes the quest easier to complete since less healing is needed. If to get more AC you have to swap out gear that would otherwise help you kill the mobs, then it becomes a tradeoff.

If using gear set 1 I kill the mob in 10 rounds and take 10/round for 100 points of damage, that is the same as if I use gear set 2 and kill the mob in 20 rounds and take 5/ round for the same 100 total points. Often however, you can tilt those tables and when using gear set 3 for example, take 20 rounds to kill the mob and only take 3/round for a net total of 60 points and thus end up ahead of the game by taking 40 less NET points of damage.

This is of course a grossly simplified example, but what AC is really all about is lowering the RATE of incoming damage to you faster than you lower the RATE of outgoing DAMAGE to the mobs. IF using AC gear does not do that for you, then it does not matter that much.

[Zenako]

Also keep in mind that there can be a HUGE difference in the numbers you see players report, even with the same character/build.

24/7 AC (or Beholder grade AC) is that which is constant and not depending on buffs, spells, boosts, etc. This number can be a LOT lower.

Peak AC depends on getting all the buffs and boosts and what not in place and is usually only attempted when entering major fights.

Personal Example: My level 12 AC build, sits at 51 AC 24/7 (Stats, gear, Feats, etc). No pots, no boosts, no spells involved. However, toss in things like Barkskin, Haste, Songs, Fighter AC boost, friendly Paladins, etc., and he can readily get to 60 or more, which can be a huge difference in some fights.

[Quikster]

Hello Fighter forum. This is my first thread in this subforum. Please be gentle.

I am thinking about some non-Fighter-based AC tank builds and I hope that I this is the best place to ask questions about armor. I am aware that AC involves quite some grind, which should not be started unless you are sure you can obtain a meaningful AC. But which AC values are reasonable milestones?
Which raids can/should be AC-tanked at all?

71 for vod norm

76 for tod norm

If you hit those values your not getting hit much by melee attacks. Dont forget the dps though.

[karl_k0ch]

Thanks, Quikster, +1. I appreciate more like that.

If your goal is highly useful AC on Elite and End Game quests, then it requires some serious focus and often grind and specific builds to achieve those extreme levels.

It is. I have a nigh-capped Pally which might be converted to a tank in a year or so. I am trying to figure out if a pure pally tank will be able to get reasonable end game AC. And if that's the case, I'm going to start the grining.

[Zerkul]

AC needs to be reviewed. At the moment even if you that much AC (95+) to get missed in epics you get it at some cost, which is the reduction of your dps and maybe of your tactics/utility. The trade off AC/Costs is not balanced you will find yourself with less survivability than a kensai 20 with 0 AC but with lots of tactics to be used or than a monk stun machine.

[grodon9999]

Thanks, Quikster, +1. I appreciate more like that.



It is. I have a nigh-capped Pally which might be converted to a tank in a year or so. I am trying to figure out if a pure pally tank will be able to get reasonable end game AC. And if that's the case, I'm going to start the grining.

See this build idea, the grind isn't as bad as you think.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294454

Or if you don't mind more grind, this build is much better.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=220826

[karl_k0ch]

See this build idea, the grind isn't as bad as you think.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294454

Or if you don't mind more grind, this build is much better.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=220826

I am trying to figure out if a pure pally tank will be able to get reasonable end game AC.

Bolded for emphasis. The Character is a Human, btw. Thanks for the links, but this is not exactly what I was looking for. And my aim was also not to get Pally build links on the Fighter forum (although I do appreciate the links, thanks gordon!).

Edit: Re: post below this one: Not worth a post, and I'm afraid I'm going to derail the thread further. I am aware of the 36pt Jaerlach build, I do know Junts' pally thread and I already opened a pure pally tank thread in the pally forums. If you have some helpful remarks, do not hesitate to point me to existing builds.

[grodon9999]

Bolded for emphasis. The Character is a Human, btw. Thanks for the links, but this is not exactly what I was looking for. And my aim was also not to get Pally build links on the Fighter forum (although I do appreciate the links, thanks gordon!).

Pure pally - look up Junt's Paladin in the Pally forum.