Greensteel - Falchion vs gAxe vs gSword

[Jhaeran]

I'm a THF melee, lvl 16 and I don't have any greensteel items. Somehow I've gotten up to 16 without stepping foot in the vale. (I also haven't been to Tor or Isles yet...)

Anyway, I'm thinking I'm behind on my greensteel and need to get started. I know I have a lot of ingredient grinding in my future, and I'm just looking into figuring out how the whole process works.

I ran with carnifax for the most part till about 12ish, occasionally till 14. Now I'm running with the ogrish war axe, +3 holy burst GS, and blade of fury (still haven't gotten an S mark to drop) (plus the various paralyzing, metalline, etc 2h weapons)

If I'm going to build greensteel - should I pick a weapon type to focus on? I'm not bound to one type, but threat range of the falchion seems nice. x3 of axe seems nice, with gSword being kind of in the middle (higher base, mid threat).

I'm assuming exhausting research has been done in regards to the best THF weapons out there, but I'm wondering if someone can point me in the right direction or at least give some insight into what I should build for GS as I'm figuring out the process.

[ulticleo]

If you search the forums, you'll get answers to all your questions. nonetheless:

- lvl 16 on a first character is just fine for going into the vale
- you'll likely hit 20 long before you craft your first tier 3 item
- you're a kensai? what do you mean you are not attached to a single weapon type? you should be
- falchion is a good choice, unless you plan to run epics. I have a TRed kensai with a falchion and I he is great. lots of medium-large numbers from crits. A great axe crits much less often, but does more damage when it does. Since on epic things are often held or stunned for auto-critting it is a better choice. for anything else, go falchion
- speccing for great swords is a poor choice unless you make an epic SOS, which my guess is not happening any time soon for you.

hope that helps.

[Kinerd]

Falchions have a better critical profile, an advantage amplified by elemental/alignment burst/blast. Greatswords and greataxes have the best base damage, so for fighting crit-immune stuff they're the best, but you're probably better off getting something specific for each type of crit-immune thing. Greataxes and mauls have the best multiplier, so they're the best in auto-crit situations.

[PNellesen]

On this same topic: I've got an 18 Elf Valenar Tempest Ranger I'm trying to decide what to build for. He's a TWF, but wow, it seems it would take FOREVER to craft just ONE Min II scimitar, much less two. I had considered crafting a Min II Falchion instead, for the same reasons as the OP, and had also considered just going for the single Min II scimi and then buying some other kind of DR breaking scimi on the AH (he's already got a M/PG Shortbow, and a M/PG Greatsword he shares with my cleric.) Any suggestions for what would work best for a TWF-specced melee?

[Jhaeran]

Only Kensei I at this point, 9Fi/6Ro/1Ra, so Kensei bonuses are nice, but still somewhat minimal. I'm GS spec'd now due to sword of fury, but can re-spec as needed as long as it all stays slashing.

Haven't found a lot of good falchions, mostly GA and GS although I haven't been shopping for them either.

So first priority would be a GS falchion? Pretty much as I thought. I last played at 10 cap and have been playing for like 3 weeks now...still so much content and I'm leveling too fast Seems like the norm is to get to 20, get a second char to 20 then TR 1 while having the other to farm/raid with or pull in situationally.

[ChaosEmperorDragon]

I recommend crafting a MinII falchion.

It will serve you ideally in the majority of situations over your characters multi-life, and serve you well in all of them.

[Dartwick]

I think most people would recommenced the falcions if greensteel is the only consideration.

That said if you sometime move into the darkside of epic SOS users you may wish your greensteel was a greatsword.

[jwdaniels]

In auto-crit situations the Great Axe is best, the Falchion is worst. In non-auto crit situations, the Falchion is best and the Great Axe is worst. In both situations, the great sword is number two. In situations where you can't crit at all, the Great Axe and Great Sword are equal, and the Falchion is worst.

If you're only going to craft one greensteel, I would say great sword because it is most versatile and will never give you the worst dps output, probably Min II to use against bosses if you don't have a boss beatre (and bosses all have fort so the added versatility in non-crit situations and non auto-crit situationsfrom the great sword is helpful) but a Falchion wouldn't be a terrible choice. For your second greensteel, a Lit II Great Axe is probably going to be your best bet.

[ChaosEmperorDragon]

I think most people would recommenced the falcions if greensteel is the only consideration.

That said if you sometime move into the darkside of epic SOS users you may wish your greensteel was a greatsword.

Probably not. I'd venture a guess that most esos users have TR at least once. That's a long time of getting use out of the falchion. Not only that, once they get the esos there are select few occasions to pull out a green steel two-hander. By that time the ingredients to craft a MinII greatsword will likely be readily available if they care to go to the trouble to do so.

In auto-crit situations the Great Axe is best, the Falchion is worst. In non-auto crit situations, the Falchion is best and the Great Axe is worst. In both situations, the great sword is number two. In situations where you can't crit at all, the Great Axe and Great Sword are equal, and the Falchion is worst.

Regarding the first and second statements, which is more important the majority of the time; fighting impotent trash or taking down threatening mobs and bosses? I'd say the falchion. Regarding the last statement, that is incorrect. You can always get a crit, you just don't get the multiplied damage. What you do get are triggers of bursts and blasts that deal their extra damage. Especially on a kensei, this can pull falchion damage ahead in this situation where you consider it the worst. I'm uncertain if kensei weapon mastery bonus damage is dealt in that senario. I'm pretty sure bloodstone is not.

If you're only going to craft one greensteel, I would say great sword because it is most versatile and will never give you the worst dps output, probably Min II to use against bosses if you don't have a boss beatre (and bosses all have fort so the added versatility in non-crit situations and non auto-crit situationsfrom the great sword is helpful) but a Falchion wouldn't be a terrible choice. For your second greensteel, a Lit II Great Axe is probably going to be your best bet.

This idea has some merit but I have to disagree that choosing the always less-than-optimal weapon is the best choice. Look at it this way, once you complete that second green steel weapon that you suggest, the LitII greataxe, you will never want your first green steel weapon to have been a greatsword. You will want to either use the greataxe or a falchion. This is presuming we are limiting ourselves to slashing weapons. As mentioned earlier the only long-term benefit of a MinII greatsword is situational use in the far future after you are done TR and after you have acquired an esos.

[PopeJual]

If you're only ever going to craft one Greensteel weapon, I'd reccomend a MinII Maul.

MinII gives you the Keen trait on the weapon, so the fact that you don't have IC: Blunt isn't a problem and that makes the Maul pretty much the same as a Greataxe. Add in the fact that there are some enemies with DR/Blunt (although strangely, there are no mobs with DR/Chronic or DR/Doobie) and a Maul looks pretty good.

Now, if you're going to craft more than one GS weapon, then a Pos/Pos Maul (or a pair of Pos/Pos Warhammers) and a MinII slashing weapon makes more sense.

[Khellendros13]

My advice:

Min2 Falchion - Bosses and non auto crit situations
Epic Antique Greataxe - Autocrit situations
Pos/pos Maul - Lich/Skellie beater and raise dead clicky
Epic SoS - The ultimate goal for all THF'ers

Once you make the Epic SoS, you will use it the majority of the time.

If you are going to gun for the ESoS asap, and are hunting the base item already, then I would make a Min2 Greatsword instead of Falchion.

[Therigar]

IF you are going to run epic content with groups that use mass hold so that you have auto-crit situations most of the time THEN your best THF weapon is greataxe with the x3 multiplier. Greataxe beats maul because it has a higher base damage (3d6 v 2d8 or 11.5 v 9 on average).

IF you are going to run standard content where mass hold is not being used so that you do not have auto-crit situations most of the time THEN your best THF weapon is falchion with the 18-20 threat range (doubled for keen or improve crit). Although the base damage is lower the increased crit range means more damage overall.

While this has been demonstrated many times using various maths it still doesn't sink in to the bulk of the player population. As a result greataxe remains the most popular THF weapon.

If you are elf with the elf melee enhancements the falchion advantage is slightly larger. And, a lot depends on STR and weapon characteristics. Talking greensteel you are probably looking at Mineral II or Radiance. In either of those cases falchion is best for pre-epic content.

FWIW, all of the choices fall behind epic Sword of Shadows IIRC. If you are planning to run epic content then farming for a SoS is probably a good plan.

[Therigar]

If you are going to gun for the ESoS asap, and are hunting the base item already, then I would make a Min2 Greatsword instead of Falchion.

Solid advice.

[Jhaeran]

Awesome advice folks, much appreciated. I haven't even seen a sword of shadows drop yet but I'll keep running it every few days. Leaning towards a MinII (if I can figure out the focuses) falchion for leveling/re-leveling. Got my first taste of vale today, only 2 ingredients out of 6 rares. Will start dong the quests after the holiday when i have a bit more time. Needless to say I'm probably quite a ways away from even making the blank.

[Sani_Medicor]

On this same topic: I've got an 18 Elf Valenar Tempest Ranger I'm trying to decide what to build for. He's a TWF, but wow, it seems it would take FOREVER to craft just ONE Min II scimitar, much less two. I had considered crafting a Min II Falchion instead, for the same reasons as the OP, and had also considered just going for the single Min II scimi and then buying some other kind of DR breaking scimi on the AH (he's already got a M/PG Shortbow, and a M/PG Greatsword he shares with my cleric.) Any suggestions for what would work best for a TWF-specced melee?

I have a valenar elf build with gthf and gtwf...and imp crit slash and ranged...gotta love it!

[PopeJual]

Awesome advice folks, much appreciated. I haven't even seen a sword of shadows drop yet but I'll keep running it every few days. Leaning towards a MinII (if I can figure out the focuses) falchion for leveling/re-leveling. Got my first taste of vale today, only 2 ingredients out of 6 rares. Will start dong the quests after the holiday when i have a bit more time. Needless to say I'm probably quite a ways away from even making the blank.

The Sword of Shadow is a very nice weapon, but don't fret too much about getting one since it's the single most popular Epic weapon in all of DDO and that means that abotu 1/2 of your entire server's Epic population is chasing it.

That will make getting the Scroll, Seal and Shard very difficult to obtain and you will end up grinding Epic VoN raids for a long, long time before you get one.


If you're okay with that, then ESoS is a fine goal. Just don't expect one to fall into your lap after a month of Epic questing.

[Jaid314]

The Sword of Shadow is a very nice weapon, but don't fret too much about getting one since it's the single most popular Epic weapon in all of DDO and that means that abotu 1/2 of your entire server's Epic population is chasing it.

That will make getting the Scroll, Seal and Shard very difficult to obtain and you will end up grinding Epic VoN raids for a long, long time before you get one.


If you're okay with that, then ESoS is a fine goal. Just don't expect one to fall into your lap after a month of Epic questing.

i understand the seal is actually not that hard to get. just gotta farm eVoN1 a bunch, which isn't all that hard.

[DrNuegebauer]

Only Kensei I at this point, 9Fi/6Ro/1Ra, so Kensei bonuses are nice, but still somewhat minimal. I'm GS spec'd now due to sword of fury, but can re-spec as needed as long as it all stays slashing.

Erm - you've got 6 rogue levels but are using a 2-handed weapon?

My advice would be to re-spec the toon! You get backstabbing damage from both weapons when dual wielding - is there a way you can change to 2WF? (lesser heart?) Either that or change out the rogue/ranger levels and stick with the pure fighter!

[muffinlad]

If you're only ever going to craft one Greensteel weapon, I'd reccomend a MinII Maul.

MinII gives you the Keen trait on the weapon, so the fact that you don't have IC: Blunt isn't a problem and that makes the Maul pretty much the same as a Greataxe. Add in the fact that there are some enemies with DR/Blunt (although strangely, there are no mobs with DR/Chronic or DR/Doobie) and a Maul looks pretty good.

Now, if you're going to craft more than one GS weapon, then a Pos/Pos Maul (or a pair of Pos/Pos Warhammers) and a MinII slashing weapon makes more sense.

Your Holiness....all of the creatures with DR/Chronic and DR/Doobie pay at the keyboard, and normally when I am trying to get a no deaths run in.

muffinnarc

[muffinlad]

Awesome advice folks, much appreciated. I haven't even seen a sword of shadows drop yet but I'll keep running it every few days. Leaning towards a MinII (if I can figure out the focuses) falchion for leveling/re-leveling. Got my first taste of vale today, only 2 ingredients out of 6 rares. Will start dong the quests after the holiday when i have a bit more time. Needless to say I'm probably quite a ways away from even making the blank.

Once you have actually made the Falchon, and have access to the Shroud, let people know you are new and are saving up to make your MinII. For the most part, your guildies will help you out with that, and even if you are not in the same guild as some players, they will help you out with the Tier I and Tier II ingrieds. (Tier III is a bit tougher)....the main reason is the faster you get to your Min II, the better for everyone you "Shroud" with, and the Tier I/II are fairly plentiful.

I love Tor btw...it is a fun zone, and you can still earn some good exp there on your second time around.

Good luck


muffincrafter