The great thing about the ninja spy

[Mosch]

The topic title is basically the question. Why should I become a Ninja Spy?

As s precursor, I have just leveled my first monk to level 6 and chose to take the ninja spy prestige. My monk build is a dark path monk (obviously) that's mainly build for strength and wisdom - I am going for a stunning theme. Now I have tried the ninja spy for some time and here's my impression.

1. Shortswords as Ki weapons: Why? Really, that's it. In what scenario would I ever prefer a shortsword over my handwraps? I have not yet found one.

2. +2 balance, hide, move silently: While balance is a good skill both hide and move silently are not really party compatible.

3. 1d6 sneak attack damage: That's a nice one.

4. 10% faster sneak: Still too slow to keep up with your party.

5. +1 Ki regeneration: I misread that one and assumed I would get a flat +1. Well, no, it only gets applied while sneaking. I have used this ability rarely since, once again, sneaking with a party is not that much fun.

6. Shadow Fade: Nice, but the party wizard usually applies the same effect and its in effect for more than a minute. The ghost portion was fun to play around with but ultimately it's a Ki based invisibility potion. On the other hand, this counts as a dark move....which does what?

So basically for my investment of 8 enhancement points (Jump 2, Tumble 2, PrE) and a feat (Dodge) I would not have taken otherwise I get 1d6 sneak damage and +2 balance PLUS a few abilities that won't really see play. I can see how it would be somewhat better when soloing, but I don't think that's such a big improvement, to be honest. Is there anything about the ninja spy that I'm missing? Any special tricks on how to get the most out of this prestige class? At the moment I'm really inclined to just respec the enhancements and maybe swap out dodge.

[dummeskind]

Was doing the Light Monk Shintao Way and the Drak Monk Ninja Spy way both with Dex and Str Build,and i go back to Light Shintao Str/WIs Build.For me only the Touch of death is worth going Dark Way the Ninja isnt.On Shintao ur AC is better u more Party Helpfull with ur Finisher and u heal urself like hell with new Vampi Handwraps from Plaza Quests.

If possible get u Backstabbing Item and u got same like Ninja.But most time i run around Mobs or attack from behind so i dont care about the Ninja.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Sneak attack damage is never a bad thing, and you get an extra 1d6 once get the 2nd tier

Shadow fade is incorporeality miss chance, blur (or displacement) miss chance is from concealment, and if the enemy has true seeing it's negated - however being different types they will stack - or rather, give 2 independent miss chances.

Shortswords as ki weapons... thats a tricky one - mainly its useful for smiting/banishing/WoP effects, with the greater crit range (and with 2nd tier of ninja you'll get improved crit with shortswords to make them more effective), it can also be useful if youre going a multiclass route.

[sephiroth1084]

Shadow Fade is one of the single most powerful survival mechanisms in DDO, and is coupled with 2 of the others (Evasion and potentially AC). I just ran an elite Shroud with probably close to the lowest HP of all the melees on my monk (there were 2 barbarians and 2 paladins among others), and was the only one to survive for the entire fight. Fairly certain that I can attribute that accomplishment to (aside from the healers) Shadow Fade and Evasion exclusively. This stacks with Blur and Displacement and continues to work even vs. enemies that have True Seeing.

And this is completely ignoring the benefits of being able to go invisible at will.

The Ki regen while sneaking is better than you think. While the party is buffing, going into sneak mode. While they're shrining, go into sneak mode (you don't need to shrine anyway, you're a monk). Any time there is a break in the action and you aren't running to some place new, sneak.

Also, as monks gain levels, they get much faster. Eventually, you'll be moving almost as fast while sneaking as everyone else is running.

Also, if you're in trouble in a fight, you can Shadow Fade to go invisible, sneak off to a safe spot, then sit down and Meditate/Wholeness of Body (next level) to safely regain Ki and HP at the same time.

+1d6 SA damage is really nice.

[Mosch]

Didn't know Shadow Fade stacked with Blur and kinda forgot about fast movement. I suppose I'll give it another chance.

[sephiroth1084]

Didn't know Shadow Fade stacked with Blur and kinda forgot about fast movement. I suppose I'll give it another chance.

You don't have to. You could opt to be a gimp instead.

[LupusVai]

Sneak attack damage is never a bad thing, and you get an extra 1d6 once get the 2nd tier .

Its an extra 2d6 for the second tier. Bringing the total to 3d6. I'm hoping that teir 3 will bring an extra 3d6. (if it follows the previous two tiers)


OP:

Overall the whole short swords thing is a bit meh, although paired banishers/smiters with tier 2 ninja spy imp crit will see you through the vale quite nicely. (I didnt bother personally and just stuck to handwraps. But I might well give it a go when I tr my dark monk)

As everyone else has mentioned shadow fade is superb its also very handy when soloing for skipping mobs.

[thandros]

the 20% incorporable from Ninja spy seems to work with the 10% from Dusk Heart. Sometimes you get the incopr message sometimes the blur message. i think it seems checks twice for each hit since they different effects

[Four20]

6. Shadow Fade: Nice, but the party wizard usually applies the same effect and its in effect for more than a minute. The ghost portion was fun to play around with but ultimately it's a Ki based invisibility potion. On the other hand, this counts as a dark move....which does what?

I think you are underestimating the 25% incorpal clickie. It stacks with concealment, and you should easily be able to make that 10 ki up during the 60 second duration that it's active.

Just my 2 cents though(lvl 20 TR1 Dark Path DPS Monk)

edit - see, sephiroth knows

[Carpone]

1. Shortswords as Ki weapons: Why? Really, that's it. In what scenario would I ever prefer a shortsword over my handwraps? I have not yet found one.

As a first life monk, you'll want boss beaters for Shroud, VoD, ToD, etc. Metalline/PG handwraps are a pain in the ass to obtain. You can ransack Shadow Crypt for months and still not get Devout Handwraps.

2. +2 balance, hide, move silently: While balance is a good skill both hide and move silently are not really party compatible.
4. 10% faster sneak: Still too slow to keep up with your party.

You don't need a party for 99% of DDO. Bring a healer hireling.

3. 1d6 sneak attack damage: That's a nice one.

It's better at Ninja Spy II, 3d6. It's more of a raid bonus rather than a questing bonus. Mobs don't last very long in quests, and you can't reliably control aggro in a group (and you'll always have aggro when soloing).

5. +1 Ki regeneration: I misread that one and assumed I would get a flat +1. Well, no, it only gets applied while sneaking. I have used this ability rarely since, once again, sneaking with a party is not that much fun.

Use before you Meditate.

6. Shadow Fade: Nice, but the party wizard usually applies the same effect and its in effect for more than a minute. The ghost portion was fun to play around with but ultimately it's a Ki based invisibility potion. On the other hand, this counts as a dark move....which does what?

25% incorporeal is not something an arcane can give you. This also stacks with Blur or Displacement. It's the best reason to take Ninja Spy while leveling.

[Aerendil]

I'm quite liking Half-Elf Dark Monks with Rogue dile.
6d6 total sneak dice, plus whatever Ninja III brings, is pretty juicy. Especially when you can utilize that with either twin radiance shortswords or sticking with handwraps + utilizing Falling Star Strike (air-dark-air) to blind an enemy.

Plus, as others have mentioned, Shadow Fade is fantastic and works with Blur/Displacement. And despite all the groans about the recent ToD change, it's still quite nice. Especially if solo and you want to burn a red-named boss down asap.

And yes, bring a healing hireling if solo. It will open up a lot of soloing doors for you.

[Mosch]

You don't need a party for 99% of DDO. Bring a healer hireling.

I know, but I happen to like playing with my friends

Thanks for all the help again everyone. Also, stealth meditating? Brilliant! Nobody will EVER be able to tell if I achieved enlightenment

However, if I may ask: What IS the recent Touch of Death change?

[t0r012]

I know, but I happen to like playing with my friends

Thanks for all the help again everyone. Also, stealth meditating? Brilliant! Nobody will EVER be able to tell if I achieved enlightenment

However, if I may ask: What IS the recent Touch of Death change?

changed the damage type from untyped (i.e. hit everything) to negative energy. so now undeads and constructs are immune.

also added a saving throw for half damage that it didn't have before.

[ellamonster]

[QUOTE=Carpone;3486460]It's better at Ninja Spy II, 3d6. It's more of a raid bonus rather than a questing bonus. Mobs don't last very long in quests, and you can't reliably control aggro in a group (and you'll always have aggro when soloing).
QUOTE]

Actually you can stun or use Unbalancing Strike it will let your Sneak Attack through.

[MrLarone]

The topic title is basically the question. Why should I become a Ninja Spy?

1. Shortswords as Ki weapons: Why? Really, that's it. In what scenario would I ever prefer a shortsword over my handwraps? I have not yet found one.

better than kama's and can have effects like vorpal.

2. +2 balance, hide, move silently: While balance is a good skill both hide and move silently are not really party compatible.

yep, marginal benefit but nothing to sneeze at.

3. 1d6 sneak attack damage: That's a nice one.

yes, yes it is

4. 10% faster sneak: Still too slow to keep up with your party.

wait until you're a fully fledged monkling

5. +1 Ki regeneration: I misread that one and assumed I would get a flat +1. Well, no, it only gets applied while sneaking. I have used this ability rarely since, once again, sneaking with a party is not that much fun.

again more useful late game when you're sneaking to stay with the group instead of running of in a cloud of dust. this also stacks with the capstone ability giving you +2 ki.

6. Shadow Fade: Nice, but the party wizard usually applies the same effect and its in effect for more than a minute. The ghost portion was fun to play around with but ultimately it's a Ki based invisibility potion. On the other hand, this counts as a dark move....which does what?

yes, blur is good. but blur doesn't replace this, you get both i.e. one roll against blur and one roll against shadow fade. AWESOME!

[Aerendil]

better than kama's and can have effects like vorpal.

Not to nitpick, but slashing weapons = vorpal.

Shortswords = piercing weapons, so you can't get vorpal. But you can get some stat damagers to get your opponent into insta-crit status quickly such as wounding of puncturing or weakening of enfeebling (WoE is also available with handwraps fyi). And, as mentioned, you can get greensteel radiance weaponry (not available for handwraps), as well as metalline of pure good, which is really hard to find on handwraps.

[Cairo]

metalline of pure good, which is really hard to find on handwraps.

Its only hard to find cause if a player is to pull a set from a chest, that item never leaves their account :P