Consumer's Max DPS Fighter

[Consumer]

Screen shot or it never happened....

[Why is it we never see a video proving that these DPS numbers are possible in actual gameplay?]

Because no one with this gear and build has currently made one?

[Renvar]

You still consistently list the Epic Spectral Gloves when quoting your To-Hit but show your DPS using Epic Claw set damage bonuses. Are you thinking you can use the quick draw feat to change the gloves so fast that you can get both bonuses?

I understand about clicky items like the boots, but the gloves aren't like that. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I don't need to "research some endgame gear, the duration of buffs and swapping gear sets for different bonuses." to know that you can't get the + 4 damage bonus from the claw set and the +4 to hit bonus from the spectral gloves at the same time.

Show the numbers based on what you will be wearing in each situation. Quoting numbers with directly conflicting gear and calling it "theoretical" or "potential" is not the correct word. "Wrong" or "False" or "Misleading" would be the correct words.

If you never plan on wearing the Epic Spectrals (Which you clearly don't as you never list it in your gear lists. And you shouldn't wear them anyways. You don't need the bump to To-Hit at all) then don't show them in your calculations.

Like I said before. Stop trying to hyperbolate the build. Tell us what gear you are ACTUALLY going to wear and show us the numbers. The build will speak for itself.

Otherwise I can only assume you either: 1) don't know what you are doing or 2) you are not sure the build is good enough on it's own.

[eonfreon]

You still consistently list the Epic Spectral Gloves when quoting your To-Hit but show your DPS using Epic Claw set damage bonuses. Are you thinking you can use the quick draw feat to change the gloves so fast that you can get both bonuses?

I understand about clicky items like the boots, but the gloves aren't like that. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I don't need to "research some endgame gear, the duration of buffs and swapping gear sets for different bonuses." to know that you can't get the + 4 damage bonus from the claw set and the +4 to hit bonus from the spectral gloves at the same time.

Show the numbers based on what you will be wearing in each situation. Quoting numbers with directly conflicting gear and calling it "theoretical" or "potential" is not the correct word. "Wrong" or "False" or "Misleading" would be the correct words.

If you never plan on wearing the Epic Spectrals (Which you clearly don't as you never list it in your gear lists. And you shouldn't wear them anyways. You don't need the bump to To-Hit at all) then don't show them in your calculations.

Like I said before. Stop trying to hyperbolate the build. Tell us what gear you are ACTUALLY going to wear and show us the numbers. The build will speak for itself.

Otherwise I can only assume you either: 1) don't know what you are doing or 2) you are not sure the build is good enough on it's own.

Or he can hope that people understand between "potential" and "application".
You are quibbling over +2 to hit.
Naturally, he won't be using them 99% of the time, because with his to-hit he really won't ever need them. However, they do exist and they do add +2 to hit.
He doesn't list them in any of his dps calcs, because he will never use them.

You realized it, I realized it. And anyone who has any inkling of this gear realizes it. Some of us want to know best case scenario for different scenarios. Then we recalculate depending on what we need. It's all listed seperately. It's easy to deduct or add as we see fit.

Worst case scenario: someone new to the game somehow acquires all this stuff and relies on nothing but this thread and the OP for calculations, tries to equip both Claw and Spectral Gloves and realizes he can't. Oh no!! He's down 2 to hit!!! Whatever shall he do?? He's been misled!!!

[Chai]

Why because I don't give videos and excess proof to those to stubborn and ignorant to accept what is in front of their face?

I have no desire to be Shade:

Last night I had a dream, When I got to Africa,
I had one hell of a rumble.
I had to beat Tarzan’s behind first,
For claiming to be King of the Jungle.


The Fighter does not fall short it destroys the Barb. You know nothing about DPS and continue to prove so.

Where lag messes up the Fighter it messes up everyone, plus you get a hell of a lot less lag when you use a decent PC and internet connection.

Because spreadsheet gaming is soooo much easier to banter this stuff with than actual application. In the actual game, my barb destroys these mobs just as quickly as fighters do.

I agreed with shade maybe 50% of the time, but what he DID bring to the table was application. You want to know who is better on 100% fort? You can banter the numbers and wave your spreadsheets all you want. In other news: He was timing people beating down the same portal and recording it. There were some fighters in the top 10, but they werent beating barbarians by the huge lot like you say they are.

[grodon9999]

I agreed with shade maybe 50% of the time, but what he DID bring to the table was application. You want to know who is better on 100% fort? You can banter the numbers and wave your spreadsheets all you want. In other news: He was timing people beating down the same portal and recording it. There were some fighters in the top 10, but they werent beating barbarians by the huge lot like you say they are.

I thought that portal was a bad idea, 100% fort DPS?

Use Gula in Sins, get 6 person parties (so there is no dungeon scaling) with a warchanter bard and time various builds beating him down. He's the closest thing I can think of in-game that's an evil practice dummy who's made of meat. He just stands there and lest you hit him.

If he drops too fast, do it on Elite for more HP.

The mission's also fun and profitable so I don't think you'll have trouble talking people into joining you.

Though I disagreed with much of Shade's philosophy on what the game should be, he walked the walk.

[blitzschlag]

I agreed with shade maybe 50% of the time, but what he DID bring to the table was application. You want to know who is better on 100% fort? You can banter the numbers and wave your spreadsheets all you want. In other news: He was timing people beating down the same portal and recording it. There were some fighters in the top 10, but they werent beating barbarians by the huge lot like you say they are.

actually fighters were forbidden to use hasteboost because in the "common" 48 minute fights there was no sustained hasteboost possible...

[Nick_RC]

Because spreadsheet gaming is soooo much easier to banter this stuff with than actual application. In the actual game, my barb destroys these mobs just as quickly as fighters do.

I agreed with shade maybe 50% of the time, but what he DID bring to the table was application. You want to know who is better on 100% fort? You can banter the numbers and wave your spreadsheets all you want. In other news: He was timing people beating down the same portal and recording it. There were some fighters in the top 10, but they werent beating barbarians by the huge lot like you say they are.

I am looking forward to getting to a laptop to tear some of this **** apart. An iPhone doesn't cut it.

N

<insert direspectful weaksauce parting shot.

[Chai]

You're not smart enough to understand the feat choices, that's OK don't worry. You need extra HP in every situation to support your poor play style.

And this...

Again a point you fail to understand, the goal is to maximise DPS, this means not having agro is preferable to get the extra Tharne's damage.

Is exactly why....

Drops by 50%, how ignorant are you?

You are not ready....

Lets not lie here you dont even know the cool down on your own boosts, you clearly dont use them enough to to notice simple information like this.

to debate this stuff....

Again for a poor play style like yours it may be bad, some of us aren't simpletons and can manage easily..

On the internet.


The only thing you bring to the table when someone disagrees with you is telling them they are stupid, their playstyle sucks, they dont know what they are talking about, they are ignorant, etc. This is the calling card of those who argue on reactionary and defensive terms, and will not actually debate what is being said by the person who disagrees, and instead covers everything up with insults to the opposition. This is also why your build threads and DPS discussions turn into troll fests where hilarity ensues, especially when the people who disagree with you are equally as reactionary as yourself.

I think people could have had a discussion about what your build brings to the table and what it lacks in a civilized manner sans animosity, but that potential ended as soon as you began bantering that specific people who disagree with you are ignorant, lack reading skills, and suck at playing DDO. You cant possibly expect readers to believe this is the case for every single person who disagrees with you, can you?

[blitzschlag]

And this...





Is exactly why....






You are not ready....







to debate this stuff....






On the internet.


The only thing you bring to the table when someone disagrees with you is telling them they are stupid, their playstyle sucks, they dont know what they are talking about, they are ignorant, etc. This is the calling card of those who argue on reactionary and defensive terms, and will not actually debate what is being said by the person who disagrees, and instead covers everything up with insults to the opposition. This is also why your build threads and DPS discussions turn into troll fests where hilarity ensues, especially when the people who disagree with you are equally as reactionary as yourself.

I think people could have had a discussion about what your build brings to the table and what it lacks in a civilized manner sans animosity, but that potential ended as soon as you began bantering that specific people who disagree with you are ignorant, lack reading skills, and suck at playing DDO. You cant possibly expect readers to believe this is the case for every single person who disagrees with you, can you?

while i agree on your dislike of his posting style, the "arguments" that get brought up "against" the build are more class-religious motivated than somehow backed up. just strawman arguments against mathematical proove. its a nerd game based purely on math. but for the religious class-fanatics math is suddenly no pro-argument anymore?

[eonfreon]

And this...





Is exactly why....






You are not ready....







to debate this stuff....






On the internet.


The only thing you bring to the table when someone disagrees with you is telling them they are stupid, their playstyle sucks, they dont know what they are talking about, they are ignorant, etc. This is the calling card of those who argue on reactionary and defensive terms, and will not actually debate what is being said by the person who disagrees, and instead covers everything up with insults to the opposition. This is also why your build threads and DPS discussions turn into troll fests where hilarity ensues, especially when the people who disagree with you are equally as reactionary as yourself.

I think people could have had a discussion about what your build brings to the table and what it lacks in a civilized manner sans animosity, but that potential ended as soon as you began bantering that specific people who disagree with you are ignorant, lack reading skills, and suck at playing DDO. You cant possibly expect readers to believe this is the case for every single person who disagrees with you, can you?

LOL. This was Consumer's replt to the exact same person who disagreed with him the first time in the same aggressive manner. Or more like just threw insults at him from the start. Consumer responded in kind. You'll notice that others who disagree and actually ask questions, get completely different replies, heh.

In other news....hilarity ensues.

[Thrudh]

Did you read the OP? Your questions are actually already accounted for.

You are correct... He does not include 45 hp from a greensteel cloak in his normal hp total, instead opting for the +3 STR profane bonus...

My apologies to the OP.

[Chai]

while i agree on your dislike of his posting style, the "arguments" that get brought up "against" the build are more class-religious motivated than somehow backed up. just strawman arguments against mathematical proove. its a nerd game based purely on math. but for the religious class-fanatics math is suddenly no pro-argument anymore?

I disagree. This game is not based entirely on math. There are way too many situations and building for mechanics in DDO that favor some situations that do not favor other situations. If we were playing WOW or EQ, where there are two or maybe three damage mitigating factors and very few situations that change how a build performs I would agree, but this is clearly not the case.

If you can prove that math with application, then yeah, bring it on. I see alot of this math that gets brought to the table that fails to be proven in application.

Fighters being 26 minutes ahead of barbs in DPS? Why isnt everyone building fighters then? Because its not true. You may be able to banter numbers showing this, but you wont be able to show me this in application. Barbs can destroy these mobs as quickly as fighters in the situations he is calculating, which tells me that while barbs **MIGHT be behind, they arent behind by enough that it even takes one more swing to kill the same mob. Where is this 26 minute disparity in application? The only place it exists is on spreadsheets. If I want to make fighters win by 26 minutes on a spreadsheet, I can. If I want to make dex based rangers with light hammers win on a spreadsheet, I can do that too, but application will prove otherwise, even if its an obviously exagerated example stated for levity, heh.

[Thrudh]

You're not smart enough to understand the feat choices, that's OK don't worry. You need extra HP in every situation to support your poor play style.

After apologizing to the OP, I still have to throw in one last snarky comment...

One could also say that "you seem to need extra DPS in every situation to support your poor play style..." (Not that I think you're a bad player, but one could easily say that)



Absolute max DPS at the exclusion of everything else does limit a build and certainly isn't required for success.

[Chai]

LOL. This was Consumer's replt to the exact same person who disagreed with him the first time in the same aggressive manner. Or more like just threw insults at him from the start. Consumer responded in kind. You'll notice that others who disagree and actually ask questions, get completely different replies, heh.

In other news....hilarity ensues.

Yeap exactly. Pay particularly close attention to the part where I say: This is also why your build threads and DPS discussions turn into troll fests where hilarity ensues, especially when the people who disagree with you are equally as reactionary as yourself.

If he is making the thread claiming max DPS, he needs to understand his build is going to get picked apart. He is not ready for these types of discussions if he cant answer the questions with anything other than more of the same jaunts at reading skills and mental capacity.

[grodon9999]

Because no one with this gear and build has currently made one?

Speaking of which, you got the calc for what this will pump out without the ubber-gear? GS weapons, +6 stat items, no ToD or Epic loot.

[eonfreon]

Yeap exactly. Pay particularly close attention to the part where I say: This is also why your build threads and DPS discussions turn into troll fests where hilarity ensues, especially when the people who disagree with you are equally as reactionary as yourself.

If he is making the thread claiming max DPS, he needs to understand his build is going to get picked apart. He is not ready for these types of discussions if he cant answer the questions with anything other than more of the same jaunts at reading skills and mental capacity.

Why, because you say so?

And yet the discussion continues, heh.

[Chai]

Why, because you say so?

And yet the discussion continues, heh.

I didnt NEED to state the obvious, yet I did because I felt its a point that needs to be brought up. How many cliches do I need to get into here. Respect is something that is earned, perhaps. I think he could earn it alot more by showing the application and the results rather than insulting those who ask for this. I do see DPS builds and DPS threads that I and or others bring up the same points in, in the past that do not end up in hilarity ensuing and all corner stores running out of popcorn and butter, heh.

[grodon9999]

Chai, it's the work week before christmas, what else is there to do right now? This has been damned-fine theater.

I still think this toon would kick-ass though and don't agree with you about the liability of it's shortcomings.

[Cold_Stele]

@ Consumer - Does Str breakdown have +4 Str from Barb PL feat which isnt shown in your feat selection?

Excuse my ignorance - what's the +2 Str from store pot? House D pot is a bound turn in collectible right?

Is Barb PL preferable over Monk or Pally?

[Chai]

Chai, it's the work week before christmas, what else is there to do right now? This has been damned-fine theater. .

Yeap.

I still think this toon would kick-ass though and don't agree with you about the liability of it's shortcomings.

I think it could kick 5% less-ass (which still kicks ALOT of-ass) and be 35% more survivable with the same feat investment.