Consumer's Max DPS Fighter

[Aaxeyu]

Once that haste burst runs out, fighters get behind barbs in the DPS line. I would rather have 30 minutes of sustainable DPS than some 20 second party poppers that last ~ 7 minutes.

"Those of us who understand the nature of the game" would rather have the "20 second party poppers".

Running out of boosts isn't exactly common, and being out of boosts long enough for barbs to catch up is very rare.

[Chai]

"Those of us who understand the nature of the game" would rather have the "20 second party poppers".

Running out of boosts isn't exactly common, and being out of boosts long enough for barbs to catch up is very rare.

Hardly. ~4.33333 (20 sec *13 /60) min -vs- 30 minutes of rage. Wheres your sins elite solo video at? You hit up a shrine every 4.3 minutes? Back of the line, buck-o!!!

I bet youd rather have 550 hp than 800 as well? As I stated before, Shade was right when stating that fighters had to make a huge sacrifice in HP to spec for both worlds, and then only use half their feats at a time while doing so.

If we are REALLY going to banter about MAX DPS then we should be in the rogue forum. They have mid 500s hp as well and out barbs AND fighters by ~65% in "the most common situation" which is what the max DPS crowd care to banter about anyhow, while glossing over everything else. What does an assassin sacrifice there to this fighter? Nothing. Same HP and much higher DPS. The advantage fighters COULD have when built properly is survival in heavy hitting melee situations, or 600 point disintegrate situations. This build drops that in favor of DPS in 2 different specs when it doesnt need to. A dead squishy fighter could cost you a TOD completion. A dead squishy fighter is last place in DPS.

[Consumer]

When you say this kind of stuff, it indicates you are not ready for actual debate on the internet. If you are going to post an absolute, you should be ready for criticism of the same. In some cases, these people are correct. Name calling will turn your thread into a troll fest, which is what alot of these DPS threads become anyhow.

I'm not ready?

I always back up everything I say, I had to deal with Wraiths exceptionally poor posting in my Barb thread, there is nothing to debate, as usual he was wrong and I was right.

It has been proven multiple times that the DPS crowd is able to easily change and adapt to the game, continuously providing optimal ways to build toons.

A str based khopesh assassin who uses heavy picks in autocrit still puts this to bed early sans dinner in most situations.

It beats it by less than 100 DPS against a 0% fort target in a vacuum, it loses everywhere else.

Actually you pretty much did, saying someone would need to be desperate to have you tank. With middeling 500s for HP you dont have to say this. It is true anyhow. My bard has more HP.

Pretty much is not the same as did. I said nowhere it could not tank.

There it is again. Not being ale to disagree without having to insinuate the other person doesnt know whats up due to lacking some basic skill fails when speaking to people with 25 years of game experience. We have seen just about every type of "pun pun" build imaginable, read all the claims about max DPS, /grin each time we see them, and the minute we show you otherwise you feel this need to come back with insults. Insults dont change facts. You can insult Thomas Edison all you want, the lights are sill on.

P&P is not the same as DDO lol.

I tanked VOD on 400 HP hate tanks at level 14 some odd years ago. Its not exactly the test of uberness nowdays. When you are tanking horoth on elite we can have this quaint little conversation about tanking.

Right now we are talking about a ~3 year old quest as a test for a modern build. VOD has been SOLOED on elite. I have seen multiple summoned oozes tank VOD in the past, ROFL.

I brought it up because he said I had obviously never tanked the raids, I gave him the most recent example.

If you think I was bragging I was not.

We were using quickdraw in this game back in 2007. It is not a new concept. Get over thinking that you somehow brought this to the table and no one knew about it before hand. It has been a well known feat in alot of builds for years. You have brought this up in 4 threads now. Give it a rest.

Again he brought it up as a waste of a feat not me.

A rogue weilding light hammers takes your aggro, hilarity ensues.

It actually can't.

There are plenty of str based assassin khopesh builds up. If they maxed str and took khopesh and 20 rogue levels and assassin 1-3, they already put a clown suit on anything a barbarian or fighter are doing in DPS land in what you call "the most common situaions". Anything else I could add would be icing on the cake. Does a football team whose already winning by 50+ points need to score another touchdown? Rogues are up by as much as 65% in 0 fort situations.

65%, provide the numbers.

Only when hasted, which is a short period of time. Again you are bantering arguements from past threads.

Once that haste burst runs out, fighters get behind barbs in the DPS line. I would rather have 30 minutes of sustainable DPS than some 20 second party poppers that last ~ 7 minutes.

When a rogues haste party poppers run out, they still take this build to bed. They also have almost as many HP, heh. Mine has ~525.

If you don't move fast enough and run out of boosts that's not my problem.

Rogues still W7F PWN, in a very similar situation. Haste boosts run out and they still have this like a baby. Even mechanics who do ~91% assassin DPS got fighters and barbarians on lock D.

By ~20 DPS with the same gear set, ~20 DPS in a vacuum.

Shade understood numbers based banter to be just that. He understood that people will always show the numbers for the most favorable case scenario their build will face and gloss over all else. He posted videos while you banter numbers. Application proves numbers based theory. Sans application, your builds are but a simple math excersise. Application is just better. You want to prove yourself better in 100% ort situations? Beat down the portal faster than he did.

Did I not just provide numbers for multiple bosses and multiple trash fights I think I covered a range of situations.

I had capped multiple barbs in 2007. You need to drop the whole "better than you" thing. And while youre at it numero two, please hike up your skirt and do a fancy curtsy when assassins walk past. They still got 65% on this. /rolls the drums as the assassin parade marches down main street.

Provide the numbers.

Only in your imagination, do you "win" these fun little internet debates you disagree with people in. In reality, we are playing a game, not doing math problems. You just put all your eggs in one basket. When horoth turns around and /winks at you for 600+ points of damage, your awesome DPS just went from second best to last place. He gets a bunch of HP back, and the raid has a chance of failing. Theres a reason why fighters build HP into the equation. Some people dont like to get all their TOD completions on normal, and claim they are max DPS while pushing all the easy buttons to avoid real danger.

So Horoth turns around with a spell DC of 44 or under and I have to make a fort save (of which the builds is a 36 minimum self buffed). I have to roll at max an 8 to save. I'd say I'm okay with that.

[Consumer]

If we are REALLY going to banter about MAX DPS then we should be in the rogue forum. They have mid 500s hp as well and out barbs AND fighters by ~65% in "the most common situation" which is what the max DPS crowd care to banter about anyhow, while glossing over everything else.

You specified Barbs and Fighters by 65%.


Now provide the numbers.

[Chai]

I play in a vaccuum.

Numbers can be made to paint the picture you want to paint. Actual facts (application) only paint one picture. Reality.

The rest of us do not play in your vacuum where everything favors you but nothing can be said against. D&D is a situational game, regardless of incarnation. The sooner you get off the high horse where you are better in all case scenarios, the more people will begin taking your builds seriously. People who clearly understand building point out all pros and all cons.

You dont address anything other than the pros of course. You "adapt" your build to put all your eggs into one basket and then when people point this out, you banter they dont know what thy are talking about. This is why the hilarity ensues in your "max DPS" threads.

You built a fighter that has assassin HP and less DPS.

No Danielsan, you are NOT ready.

[Chai]

You specified Barbs and Fighters by 65%.


Now provide the numbers.

THose numbers have already been provided, by someone else in this thread, who usually jumps to support you.

Do the research.

[k1ngp1n]

*Munch munch munch*

[Consumer]

THose numbers have already been provided, by someone else in this thread, who usually jumps to support you.

Do the research.

Provide the numbers.

Also it's not surprising you would have to use someone else's numbers over your own.

If you say I'm wrong or state figures like 65% it's on you to provide proof.

[Chai]

Provide the numbers.

Numbers schmumbers. Show me sins solo elite, or get in line behind barbs.

[Consumer]

Numbers schmumbers. Show me sins solo elite, or get in line behind barbs.

Provide the numbers lol.

[Chai]

Provide the numbers.

Also it's not surprising you would have to use someone else's numbers over your own.

If you say I'm wrong or state figures like 65% it's on you to provide proof.

I am using the numbers of someone who supports you in debates, so that you cant imediately question the cred of said numbers when they show you are wrong, which is your well rehearsed response in most of these DPS debates.

[Consumer]

I am using the numbers of someone who supports you in debates, so that you cant imediately question the cred of said numbers when they show you are wrong, which is your well rehearsed response in most of these DPS debates.

Lay them on me then, make sure you provide a source.

[Chai]

Lay them on me then.

Ill trade you my numbers for a video of you soloing sins elite on this build. Sound like a fair trade?

4.33333 minutes per shrine indeed!!!!

[Consumer]

Ill trade you my numbers for a video of you soloing sins elite on this build.

4.33333 minutes per shrine indeed!!!!

Time to squelch the troll I think.

If he ever does provide his claimed numbers someone be sure to pm me.

This message is hidden because Chai is on your ignore list.

If anyone can spot any actual problems with the build I'll be more than happy to discuss them but make sure your provide evidence with your statements.

[krud]

I've got strong white teeth.

[grodon9999]

Numbers can be made to paint the picture you want to paint. Actual facts (application) only paint one picture. Reality.

The rest of us do not play in your vacuum where everything favors you but nothing can be said against. D&D is a situational game, regardless of incarnation. The sooner you get off the high horse where you are better in all case scenarios, the more people will begin taking your builds seriously. People who clearly understand building point out all pros and all cons.

You dont address anything other than the pros of course. You "adapt" your build to put all your eggs into one basket and then when people point this out, you banter they dont know what thy are talking about. This is why the hilarity ensues in your "max DPS" threads.

You built a fighter that has assassin HP and less DPS.

No Danielsan, you are NOT ready.

He DID provide the numbers for various situations though. I've seen his copy of the calc, it very thorough and not slanted.

What would be nice to see in addition to the maxxed-out numbers for all these toons is what would there DPS be with the "typical" gear that a pugger who hits my shroud LFM will have. I'll be shocked it 1% of the players in this game are close to being maxxed considering allegedly only 5% even run epics.

[grodon9999]

Numbers schmumbers. Show me sins solo elite, or get in line behind barbs.

As a proud member of the "Solo'd Sins Elite Club" what exactly does this have to do with DPS?

[Consumer]

He DID provide the numbers for various situations though. I've seen his copy of the calc, it very thorough and not slanted.

What would be nice to see in addition to the maxxed-out numbers for all these toons is what would there DPS be with the "typical" gear that a pugger who hits my shroud LFM will have. I'll be shocked it 1% of the players in this game are close to being maxxed considering allegedly only 5% even run epics.

My VIP has run out and I can't renew until the stores back up, I have time for numbers now, I'll put numbers for the average geared PUGer underneath the 32 pt build. Any other situations name them.

Here:

Trash - lit II GS, no ToD sets, no epics, 52 STR - 446 DPS
Harry - 345 DPS

Trash - khop specced - 519 DPS
Harry - khop - 375 DPS

[Chai]

As a proud member of the "Solo'd Sins Elite Club" what exactly does this have to do with DPS?

It has to do with Pros AND cons being pointed out for a build. I see all the pros pointed out in alot of the "max DPS" builds, but none of the cons. The minute we start to point out where something falls behind, we get hit with petty insults to intelligence about not knowing how to read, not knowing DDO etc. This of course fails at anything other than turning these "max DPS" discussions into hilarity parades.

If you can keep a debate a debate and not turn it into an arguement, then we can clearly flesh out a build that needs work. As it stands, this build is dead the minute Horoth bats one eyelash at it. But hey, lets gloss over that to add a few points of damage to heavy picks in autocrit, heh.

Its got rogue hp but not rogue DPS.

Film at 11.

[Chai]

What would be nice to see in addition to the maxxed-out numbers for all these toons is what would there DPS be with the "typical" gear that a pugger who hits my shroud LFM will have. I'll be shocked it 1% of the players in this game are close to being maxxed considering allegedly only 5% even run epics.

Theres something I can agree on. How does 95% of the DDO population benefit from this?

Even if they are maxed, change the situation they are maxed in to a different situation, and they likely arent maxed anymore. This is the nature of D&D regardless of incarnation.

Also, when Turbine changes their game in combat scenarios, they are just making money on LRs from the max dps crowd. Those of us who build on concept and are doing 90-95% dps of the max crowd in any case scenario we can banter, are now better than the max until the max runs out and grabs an LR to change to the new flavor of the month. My barbarian still holds it down, years and years after being built. I dont need him to be max, I need him to perform under the same concept he was built for, and he always has, while always being roughly 95% of max. Fighters are still behind me in line after their 4.3333 minute haste fest wears off.

We can wave numbers around if we want, but try taking my aggro in TOD on elite. Good luck. Application completes theory. We want to banter science, but are only going half way there with bantering numbers.