Raid Story!!

[irivan]

So today we did a couple of Raids, it was really just a casual thing, we saw that more than six of us were on, and were like hey lets do TOD.

So we put up an LFM, we get a group in no time.

We warned everyone that we had some noobs who needed some training and first time kiter (all from within the guild)

Part 1. judge and jailer go down easily no casualties, even with a noob healer.

Part 2. Shadow kite, new kiter, no problem, he does it and makes it look easy.

Part 3. So this Cleric that lost connection in part 1 and we had to wait through multiple disconnects to get back, not our noob guild buddy, runs out of SP before Suluu even pops (mind you he was exhausted the time) and the Dps was not extraordinary but it was reliable, long story short, we had to scamble to get the guy pots and get him some SP, meanwhile the noob is hanging in there. I personally know that the noob had only about 2000 sp (an FVS, Monk multi), any way the our main tank incaps and horoth goes berserk as usual, Suluu had like 5% left, raid ends up wiping.

So i ask him if he had any pots when he came to the raid, he said no. Worse i think he had less SP than our multi class healer and his heals sucked too. Any way we re-ran it, i booted him and got a real healer who had no issues and the Raid went like it should have the first time with out a hitch.

Moral of the story.

If you are new, do not try to hide it, if you are lacking resources dont try to hide it, people will HELP YOU. If you keep that a secret about how bad you suck, the people will hate you for it and never, ever let you run with them again, maybe not even your entire fricken guild.

SO TELL PEOPLE YOU SUCK, SO PEOPLE CAN HELP YOU NO LONGER SUCK.

[Sibellya]

Cool story Hansel

You are right though...

[Bogenbroom]

I am not disagreeing with you, but I can see how a guy would hesitate to say anything. Anti-noob bias is pretty high these days.

I got grilled just yesterday joining an EtK run on my FvS... "do you know the quest?" "Can you keep up healing end fight?"

While it has generally been my experience that folks are pretty patient with healers in 6 mans, raid runs tend to be a bit different.

Again, not disagreeing with you, I just can understand a newbs nervousness about revealling their inexperience.

[darktau]

[QUOTE=irivan;3468870]We warned everyone that we had some noobs who needed some training and first time kiter (all from within the guild)/QUOTE]

So you tell eveyone you have NOOBs and a newbie. How did you manage to actually full a group? Heck if I had been told that I would have droped as there is no way I am healing NOOBs. They never lissen and are a waste of SP.

Newbies on the other hand are alright so long as there guildies can guide them and ensure they are preped.

SO TELL PEOPLE YOU SUCK, SO PEOPLE CAN HELP YOU NO LONGER SUCK.

It would be nice if this was true. But join a group and if the leader is takeing the game to seriously you get kicked. There is an anti NOOB mentality in all games. With most people not able to see the difference between a NOOB who wont listen/learn and a Newbie that is new to the game/raid but willing to learn.

[MeliCat]

It would be nice if this was true. But join a group and if the leader is takeing the game to seriously you get kicked. There is an anti NOOB mentality in all games. With most people not able to see the difference between a NOOB who wont listen/learn and a Newbie that is new to the game/raid but willing to learn.

But then you get the people in between.

So a FvS (happy to PM name if anyone wants to know) joins our TOD and is told to heal the main tank. We're in on hard and we have 2 healers assigned to main tank, bard to spot heal party and recontructed suulu tank which is a fairly common way to run TOD. I'm the other FvS on the main tank and it's the first time I've run her in there although I've run both my clerics in TODs plenty of times. There are subtle differences in Clerics and FvSes just in the way they heal I've discovered and I'm still getting used to her.

This FvS decides to heal the party . They are told not to and to heal the main tank. They are told via tells, voice and party chat. I do my best (sucking down pots) but I just can not cast fast enough for the amount of tank damage. Maybe other FvSes could have but it was made clear that we were to have both healers on the main tank. Anyway tank dies, it all goes nuts and we fail. There was some attempts to recover and yes the main tank got back and this FvS still didn't listen to instructions to heal.

I exchanged some tells with this FvS suggesting that maybe one of the reasons we wiped is that he was not healing the main tank. He claims to have solo healed the main tank before. This may have been true. He's a fairly common healer around the traps.

So am I the noob because I couldn't solo heal? Or is this FvS, who is obviously competent as they have solo healed before and you can't run TODs etc without some level of competency, the noob for not having followed instructions etc? Are we both noobs? (My FvS is Messticulous should you wish to choose not to run with me btw). I would argue that I was a known newb in there - correctly geared and resourced but still new on that character type. She's solo healed VOD no problems.

At the end of the day it's either fun or not. And that was exasperating trying to communicate mid raid fail not fun.

[Garvin]

Actually from my perspective, there are many factors to consider. Firstly is the tank a Barbarian (e.g. not an AC tanker with high saves), if so then if it was my raid I would also have put 2 healers on him/her too, reason being that on top of badges dmg, there is also a possiblity that the tanker will fail Disintegrate thats Horoth throws at him/her (causing massive dmg).

I would only put a single healer on the tanker if I know said tanker can handle it, but this is only based on having run multiple times with this tanker and seeing that he or she can handle all kinds of situations that Horoth throws their way.

If the leader of the party tells 2 healers to heal the main tank then there must be a reason for it, either the leader never ran with the tanker before OR the leader knows that the tanker needs such healing from 2 persons and can't handle it without.

The other FVS in your TOD party is presumptous to think that ALL TOD main tankers can be solo healed by a FVS or Cleric in ALL situations, because who knows, when this FVS was solo healing (like he claimed), other people could have helped heal the tanker as well (e.g. a scroll heal once in a while from a bard or an LOH from a pally etc), or he was very lucky that the tankers in his previous TOD runs had high saves, and/or high ACs OR just plain uber high HP.

So ignore this FVS, cause it goes to show he/she never led a TOD raid before and so never considered all angles to a successful run of it.

[Sibellya]

If it's your first time or you're not used to playing a particular role (e.g. you solo leveled your divine and haven't raid healed much) then you really should tell the raid leader. If you're embarrassed then send a tell. If you do and you get booted then blacklist the guy, you don't want to run with people like that and he'll be spending more time with LFM up to get the healer he needs. A more likely scenario is that the raid leader can explain to you what needs to be done and will take your inexperience into account by using more conservative tactics.

If you don't know what you're doing, say nothing, and cause a wipe, then it is your fault. This is not elitism or noob-hate, it's avoiding wasting 11 other people's time and resources. The vast majority of groups out there will help you out and give you the opportunity to learn and improve as a player if you do them the courtesy of being honest up front. I'm still learning parts of this game, so if I don't know a quest I say so. I've never been booted, I've never caused a wipe, and every day I learn more about the game so I can teach other people on their first times.

[taurean430]

But then you get the people in between.

So a FvS (happy to PM name if anyone wants to know) joins our TOD and is told to heal the main tank. We're in on hard and we have 2 healers assigned to main tank, bard to spot heal party and recontructed suulu tank which is a fairly common way to run TOD. I'm the other FvS on the main tank and it's the first time I've run her in there although I've run both my clerics in TODs plenty of times. There are subtle differences in Clerics and FvSes just in the way they heal I've discovered and I'm still getting used to her.

This FvS decides to heal the party . They are told not to and to heal the main tank. They are told via tells, voice and party chat. I do my best (sucking down pots) but I just can not cast fast enough for the amount of tank damage. Maybe other FvSes could have but it was made clear that we were to have both healers on the main tank. Anyway tank dies, it all goes nuts and we fail. There was some attempts to recover and yes the main tank got back and this FvS still didn't listen to instructions to heal.

I exchanged some tells with this FvS suggesting that maybe one of the reasons we wiped is that he was not healing the main tank. He claims to have solo healed the main tank before. This may have been true. He's a fairly common healer around the traps.

So am I the noob because I couldn't solo heal? Or is this FvS, who is obviously competent as they have solo healed before and you can't run TODs etc without some level of competency, the noob for not having followed instructions etc? Are we both noobs? (My FvS is Messticulous should you wish to choose not to run with me btw). I would argue that I was a known newb in there - correctly geared and resourced but still new on that character type. She's solo healed VOD no problems.

At the end of the day it's either fun or not. And that was exasperating trying to communicate mid raid fail not fun.

I've discovered that when you have someone in party that cannot follow the instructions of the raid lead; it's better to adapt and deal with them later. In the situation you described, it may have been prudent to pull the bard off of the party and over to the main tank to scroll heal.

Unfortunately the best laid plans can go to pot due to someone insisting that their way is the right way when they are not leading. The onus imo is on the players who join the lfm to run the raid the way the leader wants to. There is always the option to politely drop group/ lead your own if a point of contention arises.

On the new thing... I just started running my healing toons through TOD. It's been fun, drama free, and much less intensive than I anticipated. My guildie was telling me about a run he was in earlier this day. Apparently, one of the dps barbs stole aggro from the tank and didn't have boots. Nor did he tell anyone. When he was magically sent away/banished by Horoth; chaos ensued resulting in a party wipe. I guess the person responded something to the effect of wanting to see if he could get away with it. This doesn't bode well if this type of disregard for others is creeping into that raid. There is very little room for error there.

[noinfo]

Actually from my perspective, there are many factors to consider. Firstly is the tank a Barbarian (e.g. not an AC tanker with high saves), if so then if it was my raid I would also have put 2 healers on him/her too, reason being that on top of badges dmg, there is also a possiblity that the tanker will fail Disintegrate thats Horoth throws at him/her (causing massive dmg).

I would only put a single healer on the tanker if I know said tanker can handle it, but this is only based on having run multiple times with this tanker and seeing that he or she can handle all kinds of situations that Horoth throws their way.

If the leader of the party tells 2 healers to heal the main tank then there must be a reason for it, either the leader never ran with the tanker before OR the leader knows that the tanker needs such healing from 2 persons and can't handle it without.

The other FVS in your TOD party is presumptous to think that ALL TOD main tankers can be solo healed by a FVS or Cleric in ALL situations, because who knows, when this FVS was solo healing (like he claimed), other people could have helped heal the tanker as well (e.g. a scroll heal once in a while from a bard or an LOH from a pally etc), or he was very lucky that the tankers in his previous TOD runs had high saves, and/or high ACs OR just plain uber high HP.

So ignore this FVS, cause it goes to show he/she never led a TOD raid before and so never considered all angles to a successful run of it.

I can't agree more about this. Having tanked on multiple types of toons in this raid it is easy to see the amount of work required to keep 1 type up over another. The job of everone is to follow the RAID Leaders directions. If they have another idea send a tell before the action starts. The people who end up footing the bill for not listening are always initially the healers, and everyone who put in time in the raid.

That being said, there is nothing like saving a raid from this kind of situation if you had pulled it off. The fact you tried is a credit to you and that you were not able to do it is certainly no shame regardless of experience with a toon. Many people will draw a line with resources etc and I can understand that too, but sometimes it is that person who manages to pull things back from the brink that makes the most memorable of experiences, I and our guild always make sure those people are compensated.

To the OP not much more you can do, asking if anyone is new is standard practice, while with 20/20 hindsight you could say "do the healers have sufficient resources" etc but in an end game raid it is reasonable that this will not have been their first raid and that they would have some understanding of emergency resources.

[Vallin]

To the OP not much more you can do, asking if anyone is new is standard practice, while with 20/20 hindsight you could say "do the healers have sufficient resources" etc but in an end game raid it is reasonable that this will not have been their first raid and that they would have some understanding of emergency resources.

I agree that there is a need to question, and that is also hindsight because I was in the group as well!

I prefer to take people/toons as they come - but the simple reality is that the likelihood of success and a fun experience is exponentially increased by asking the most simple questions like:

1. Do you have heavy fort
2. Do you have DR breaking weapons
3. Do you have adequate scroll/pots/whatever resources needed

We recently started asking these basic questions for epic pugs (rather than going on good faith) and it is surprising how our PUG success improved immediately. Sad that we need to do that, but it is a reality.

Dwarven Defenders have ALWAYS been willing to teach, coach, etc and have always had really broad tolerance and a willingness to stretch our capabilities to accommodate for players who are still learning. I think that most of us have played the game so long that we don't mind the challenge - but there is a difference between challenge and sticking your head onto an Epic chopping block.

Vallin.