Debate this.

[Disavowed]

Sam Adams, George Henry Lett, Seibei Nakagawa, Henry Boddington, James Watney, Dr. John S. Pemberton, and Dr. Herman Muendar would all have finished the shroud without whining about using pots or now knowing the leader or any such petty squabble.

And they all would've had a good time doing it.

Just sayin'.

You must be related to Ug. He's always busting my balls too.

[Uska]

Meh, not really.

Not a big chess player?

No and I dont spend my money in RL or in game on idiots even if its only pixels I wouldnt bail and would try to finish but if its gonna take pots no way. not in the shroud anyways

[Doxmaster]

Sam Adams, George Henry Lett, Seibei Nakagawa, Henry Boddington, James Watney, Dr. John S. Pemberton, and Dr. Herman Muendar would all have finished the shroud without whining about using pots or now knowing the leader or any such petty squabble.

And they all would've had a good time doing it.

Just sayin'.

Also, Rosalind Franklin. **** that woman had a pair on her; she shot cancer rays at DNA with her bare hands and didnt afraid of anything.

[transtemporal]

I have capped a rogue so know all about Vale quests but seriously thought a caster with a good mix of spells (grease, fireball, merfolk's, master's touch, waterbreathing) would be even better.... nope.

Nice. For a sec I thought you were serious but then I read this and realized its impossible for anyone to consciously memorize that hideous combination of spells.

[Krag]

I doubt pikers would have learn even a tiny bit regardless of your actions.

[Pape_27]

<snip>
What would you have done?

Been on both sides of the fence here. The time I was left standing, it was a monk and myself. The dps in the raid was terrible, and there was a near party wipe after the second round with only two of left. We continued on. I would take out the gnolls and the monk would keep harry occupied. One Implosion would take out 3/4 of them most of the time. Then i would head to the center to help the monk. Unfortunately, we were not able to generate the dps needed to take out Harry. But we made it thru three more rounds with him until my mana (and pots) finally gave out. Harry was down to about 5-10% hp left when we finally bought the farm.

Why did I continue to chug pots (only had a few with me - used 5 majors + the bauble)? It wasnt because I cared about the others getting their chests or completion. One reason i did continue was because I wanted to see if I could get it done. Next time it happens, (hopefully it wont) because of what i learned (the biggest lesson - dont go all flatfooted and catch a meteor storm in the face while dancing in the blades) maybe i will be able to get it done. Another part of the reason is i did it because I want to become a better player. Just over one year in the game. One capped toon. Im still learning and that particular scenario really helped me i think. Only time will tell i suppose.


_

[hermespan]

If you don't mind wasting mana pots, finish.

If you have an issue with it, run out of mana and die. You won't see people stepping up and offering pots in a group like that. They're used to wiping in shroud so won't care anyway.

Don't ragequit or make a scene, just quietly let the group fail and jump into the next one.

[transtemporal]

Here's the thing: In a perfect world, people would log into DDO to learn, have fun, contribute and enjoy a great roleplaying experience, much like a loving relationship. But in real life, people log in to get away from the intellectual confines of real life, to mindlessly bash away at stuff with reckless abandon, on a FAR greater scale than you might think. They also don't WANT to learn any lessons, and you porting out only deprives you as they prolly don't care.

In almost direct contrast to what I posted previously, you are the only one who loses out in this instance. They had nothing more to lose, and therefore are less emotionally invested in a completion. I know a few times I have been hit with a fireball blast that did >400 damage a few times, and as a rogue with 396 HP full that is a dealbreaker. SHould I be "taught a lesson" by not being ressed? The few times I was taught said lesson I did not think "Well, I just learned something about gameplay, thank you Mr. Healer, I am now a better player for the knowledge you have bestowed on me", it was closer to things that should stay in your HEAD and not come out of your MOUTH. The FVS in Bring me the head of Ghola Fan comes to mind. Sometimes you have a bad day, sometimes you get in over your head, assuming every time that the reason you died is because you suck and need to learn some arbitrary lesson from a healer is no bueno IMO, and only leads to you getting on someone's list and limiting the number of people who will play with (read: tolerate) you, no matter HOW awesome you are.

It's not your job to teach them anything. I say finish the mission, raise them, offer pointers but if they ignore them, to each his own. Some people just can't be reached.

Well like I said, my first instinct is to finish but what I didn't say is that it depends on the group. If its just a bit of bad luck that everyone died at the same time then fine, we'll soldier on, have a laugh and go on to the next bit, no big deal.

But if its one of those groups that can't co-ordinate their way out of a wet paper bag and there are people taking phone calls and ignoring reasonable requests (like don't smash the crystals) and piking in part 1 and noobs trashtalking - that combination of attributes in a group really iritates me, especially if its at the end of the day. If those groups have trouble in part 4 and I'm on a healer, I won't waste pots on them just to drag their lazy asses through it.

From the OPs description, it sounded like one of these groups, hence my response. Normally I'm all sweetness and light, I swear!

[krud]

Here's the thing: In a perfect world, people would log into DDO to learn, have fun, contribute and enjoy a great roleplaying experience, much like a loving relationship. But in real life, people log in to get away from the intellectual confines of real life, to mindlessly bash away at stuff with reckless abandon, on a FAR greater scale than you might think. They also don't WANT to learn any lessons, and you porting out only deprives you as they prolly don't care.

I think there are many other games for would be better suited for that purpose. This isn't one of them. It can be up to a point. That's what casual is for.

It's not your job to teach them anything. I say finish the mission, raise them, offer pointers but if they ignore them, to each his own. Some people just can't be reached.

/agreed. Simply leaving them to their own devices isn't much of a teaching moment, however, neither is throwing lots of resources at it, and doing it for them. Teaching moments can happen regardless of the situation.

Flawless run, everyone breaks group happy - not much learned
party wipe, everyone breaks group angry - not much learned.
near party wipe, ubers pull it from the brink - not much learned
people communicate, regardless of the situation - hooray learning!

and when I say communicate I don't mean spoon-feeding them tips on how to complete a quest, what spells to cast, where to stand and shoot, or where to find traps. That's the quick and easy approach; expecting others to just watch and learn. I mean sitting around discussing tactics, spell usefulness, and builds. If that's not your cup of tea, fine, just don't complain that people aren't learning if your not willing to say anything.

If they don't wanna listen, not your problem, just don't let that turn you off from offering advice to those who will listen.

[Kale_Hagan]

I suggest you do the following if you're wishing you'd finished.

Get two others who are capable of 3 manning it with you (or one more - whichever). Put up an LFM for the other spots, and state "Newbs and hangers on only - prepare to be dazzled!"

Then finish it regardless of the other players participation. Smack harry down and bathe in the glory.

You might even inspire some of them.

[Jamma]

I probably would have finished part 4 just to prove a point. I then would have looted and recalled out with the cleric.

No loot for the n00bs who died, lesson learned.

Sometimes tough love is the best love....all messy and butt hurt.

This would be an 'acceptable' viewpoint. You were spending the mana pots to effectively farm the part 4 chest.

But maybe it wasn't really a case of 'carrying' a bunch of lazy players. The first few shroud runs can be confusing. Few party leaders take the time to explain whats going on. I still remember my first shroud run. Didn't know what was going on, neither did seemingly most of the rest of the party. It was a disaster. But I learned a lot. Nobody likes dying in part 4, especially through mistakes.

Then there's the 'hero' factor. One of my favorite shroud runs was me, another monk and a bard killing Arry in part 4 after everyone else had wiped in round 1.