Horc THF Pure Pally DPS - Feedback

[HippyPimp]

Hey everybody, this is my first attempt at a build and I'm looking for some advice. My primary goal is a dps build, with secondary thought to survivability (hp/healing). I know I'm handicapping myself a bit with this goal by going THF instead of TWF. Same goes for the Horc choice. I really want to try a Horc build though, so here we go:

---------------------------------------------------
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 295

BAB: 20/20/25/3030
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 22
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 6 6
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 3 5
Jump 4 6
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -2 -2
Search -2 -2
Spot -1 -1
Swim 4 6
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 16.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

Level 6 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I

Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I

Level 9 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II

Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III

Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II

Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancemennt: Orcish Fury III

Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II

Level 15 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar III

Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I

Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

Level 18 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II

Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III

Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV
-----------------------------------------------------

Would I be better off keeping all 5 lvl ups in strength and drop the DM5 and add a strength feat? I also don't know anything about end game gear.

[khangharu]

would be nice to know what all your other feats plan to be, it may be beneficial to get power attack and the half orc power attack bonus which ends up being about +16 damage total at the cost of -8 BaB. Imo the 2 extra rounds of turn undead and Energy of the Templar III are worth sacrificing in place of these. Also exhalted smite has always been useful for me which adds a +2 to threat range and critical damage multiplier of your weapon. This is probably less beneficial than divine might/divine sacrifice, still useful if you have the AP to spare

[HippyPimp]

oops, forgot them. My feats are:

Level 1 Toughness
Level 3 Two Handed Fighting
Level 6 Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 9 Power Critical
Level 12 Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 15 Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 18 Greater Two Handed Fighting

EOT III was a mistake, and the turn undead was to fill in the progression requirements. Removing those leaves me with 6AP. I could go with 3 levels of Exalted Smite, which is my obvious choice, but I could also go with all 3 levels of Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude. Sounds like this would be great for large mobs, but useless for single hits. Any thoughts?

[k1ngp1n]

oops, forgot them. My feats are:

Level 1 Toughness
Level 3 Two Handed Fighting
Level 6 Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 9 Power Critical
Level 12 Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 15 Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 18 Greater Two Handed Fighting

EOT III was a mistake, and the turn undead was to fill in the progression requirements. Removing those leaves me with 6AP. I could go with 3 levels of Exalted Smite, which is my obvious choice, but I could also go with all 3 levels of Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude. Sounds like this would be great for large mobs, but useless for single hits. Any thoughts?

Lose power critical, wf: slashing. Take Power Attack and Extend.

[HippyPimp]

Lose power critical, wf: slashing. Take Power Attack and Extend.

It seems like Power Critical is the only way other than Improved Crit to increase the number of critical hits. That was my primary goal, but I don't know how likely it is to confirm on higher lvl characters as I've never played to endgame. I can see that wf won't be too useful now.

How useful is Power Attack? It seems like you would only use it on low ac mobs. Basically, you trade making less hits for doing more damage on each hit, right?

[shadow_419]

It seems like Power Critical is the only way other than Improved Crit to increase the number of critical hits. That was my primary goal, but I don't know how likely it is to confirm on higher lvl characters as I've never played to endgame. I can see that wf won't be too useful now.

How useful is Power Attack? It seems like you would only use it on low ac mobs. Basically, you trade making less hits for doing more damage on each hit, right?

A seeker item (i.e. Bloodstone) is better at helping confirm crits and adding to the base damage before multiplier.

With Power Attack on you're gaining +10 to dmg and losing -5 to-hit for THF, before any of the h-orc enhancements.

[HippyPimp]

OK, so assuming I drop PC and WF for Power Attack and Extend, where should I spend my remaining 6AP? I could take 3 levels of Orcish Power Attack, Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude, or Exalted Smite. Which would give me max dps? Would it be better to drop Orcish Fury or Melee Damage in exchange for one of the 3 above too?

[shadow_419]

Orcish Fury - Drop
Exalted Smite -Add This gives you higher multiplier and critical threat range when you smite
Orcish Power Attack - Add Take as much as you can fit in while still hitting reliably (Don't take them too early or you'll miss with power attack on)
Orc Melee Damage - Keep


I'd go

str - 18
dex- 8
con- 16
int - 8
wis- 8
cha -14

All Lvl ups into STR
use the +2 cha to qualify for DM2 and if you can get a +2 int tome in there you can add a little balance

[Jiipster]

A quick glance at enhancements gives me this:

Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of GGood II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III


If this would make your STR uneven, drop either some Great Weapon Aptitude or Exalted Smite IV for Orcish STR II. I haven't really played around with paladins enough to know how useful GWA is on them.

[HippyPimp]

So it looks pretty hard to hit DM4, so I'm only going with DM3 (+2 Tome), but I don't think is wise to drop to DM2. My wish-list for Enhancements in order are:

KotC and Capstone (including prereqs) = 23AP
Divine Might 1-3 = 6AP
Divine Sacrifice 1-3 = 6AP
Extra Smites 3-4 = 7AP
Extra Toughness 1-2(pal & Racial) = 6AP
Lay on Hands 1-3 = 6AP
Exalted Smites 1-3 = 6AP
Power Attack 1-3 = 6AP
Orc Melee 1-2 = 6AP
Orc Fury 1-3 = 6AP
Orc Strength 1 = 2AP
Great Weapon 1-3 = 6AP
--------------------------Total 86/80 AP

So I would need to drop one of the 6AP Enhancements, most likely Great Weapon. I guess I could try going for DM4, but I would have to use 2 level ups in addition to the +2 Tome, and 4AP. So DM4 would cost +2 Tome, -2 Strength, and Orc Fury (example)

I'm also thinking I might use a +2 all Tome instead. This would allow casting (wis) sooner, as well as increase strength & Con (always helpful). It would take my Int to 8, so I was thinking about increasing it 2 points at build in place of a point in Strength. This way I could put 2 points in UMD every level instead of 1. Basically, IF I use this Tome, is it worth trading 1 Strength for 13UMD (assuming +2 tome at lvl 7)?

[Logic]

Orcish Fury - Drop
Exalted Smite -Add This gives you higher multiplier and critical threat range when you smite
Orcish Power Attack - Add Take as much as you can fit in while still hitting reliably (Don't take them too early or you'll miss with power attack on)
Orc Melee Damage - Keep


I'd go

str - 18
dex- 8
con- 16
int - 8
wis- 8
cha -14

All Lvl ups into STR
use the +2 cha to qualify for DM2 and if you can get a +2 int tome in there you can add a little balance

Yeah I'd do what this guy said.

[HippyPimp]

So this is what I'm looking at right now. I don't quite see the reasoning for dropping my cha and DM3 (offensive ability) for more con (damage absorbing) and int (useless without tome). Is a UMD of 15 useless? Should I work on getting my int higher to raise it? Currently, I don't have Orcish Strength so it ends up uneven. Should I drop a point there to up my int?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.3 (Pre-Release)
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 342
Spell Points: 275 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          6                     8
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             16                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     0.5
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            3                     4
Jump                  4                     7
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -1
Search               -2                    -1
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      5                    15

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III

[jennick52]

Orcish Fury - Drop
Exalted Smite -Add This gives you higher multiplier and critical threat range when you smite
Orcish Power Attack - Add Take as much as you can fit in while still hitting reliably (Don't take them too early or you'll miss with power attack on)
Orc Melee Damage - Keep


I'd go

str - 18
dex- 8
con- 16
int - 8
wis- 8
cha -14

All Lvl ups into STR
use the +2 cha to qualify for DM2 and if you can get a +2 int tome in there you can add a little balance

I dont understand why you would want to start with a wisdom at 8, when its easy enough to make it a 10 or 12. Why not drop con to 14 and make wis a 10/12 (not to sure here, Im at work and no access to that sort of stuff)? Is 20hps at lvl 20 really worth that much?

[Ziindarax]

As an experienced Paladin, I can tell you right off the bat that your HP is too low (for what you're wanting to do, you will want no less than 400 hit points, but 450+ would be strongly recommended). If you go to level 20 without having 400 hp, most groups (at least on Orien) will reject you from their raid parties out-right (trust me, I learned this the hard way, but fortunately, I was able correct my build so that my "finishing" HP [with Minos Legens, con +6, and Great Commander GS health necklace] was 487 HP, which is sufficient for Epics so long as you don't attempt to go Rambo in them), and some may even deny letting you into their parties for end game quests with HP that low. The reason being that bosses such as Harry and Sulu tend to hit hard (as do the bearded devils and orthons on the Normal difficulty), and odds are your paladin would be very likely to die in between healing spells. Thus, your paladin/character would be more of a burden than a contributor to the party.

Hey everybody, this is my first attempt at a build and I'm looking for some advice. My primary goal is a dps build, with secondary thought to survivability (hp/healing). I know I'm handicapping myself a bit with this goal by going THF instead of TWF. Same goes for the Horc choice. I really want to try a Horc build though, so here we go:

---------------------------------------------------
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 295

BAB: 20/20/25/3030
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 11
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 22
Dexterity 8 8
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 6 6
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 -1
Hide -1 -1
Intimidate 3 5
Jump 4 6
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -2 -2
Search -2 -2
Spot -1 -1
Swim 4 6
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 5 16.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

Level 6 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I

Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I

Level 9 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II

Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III

Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II

Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancemennt: Orcish Fury III

Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II

Level 15 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar III

Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I

Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

Level 18 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II

Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III

Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV
-----------------------------------------------------

Would I be better off keeping all 5 lvl ups in strength and drop the DM5 and add a strength feat? I also don't know anything about end game gear.

[Zachski]

Also, what kind of point build are you using to determine the stats (28 point, 34 point, 36 point)?

It says 32 points right above the stats...

[Ziindarax]

It says 32 points right above the stats...

Oops, my bad (getting drowsy and haven't had caffine).

[lord_of_rage]

Yeah I'd do what this guy said.

I wouldn't. Keep those stats at an 18 str 14 con 16 cha. You lose dm3 unless you pull a +4 tome. Why would you give up the extra dps for 20 hp? I would also go with jips ap lay out. The 8 wis is fine you only need a 14 to cast your highest lvl spells. He will honestly play like somewhat self healing barb. Your dps will be solid esp when you get the coveted esos. He will be a blast to play. But remember paladins are very clicky based. You have to keep several things going to get the most out of your dps.

[HippyPimp]

As an experienced Paladin, I can tell you right off the bat that your HP is too low (for what you're wanting to do, you will want no less than 400 hit points, but 450+ would be strongly recommended). If you go to level 20 without having 400 hp, most groups (at least on Orien) will reject you from their raid parties out-right (trust me, I learned this the hard way, but fortunately, I was able correct my build so that my "finishing" HP [with Minos Legens, con +6, and Great Commander GS health necklace] was 487 HP, which is sufficient for Epics so long as you don't attempt to go Rambo in them), and some may even deny letting you into their parties for end game quests with HP that low. The reason being that bosses such as Harry and Sulu tend to hit hard (as do the bearded devils and orthons on the Normal difficulty), and odds are your paladin would be very likely to die in between healing spells. Thus, your paladin/character would be more of a burden than a contributor to the party.

I would have to max my Con as well as rely on a +4 Tome to hit 400 naturally. That takes quite a hit on my Strength and Cha. A single +6 Con item will take me to 400 with the current build. I'm sure I can get other sources as well. Most of the advice I've read says to take 1-1 at build. Most builds seem to start right around here or +2 higher at most. Yes, I'd love to have higher hp, but I want to deal damage more. Bumping Con 2 requires a drop in cha (and loss of DM 3) or a drop in Strength (not sure how much it would hurt). How hard is it to add 80hp or so? (really asking)

[Ziindarax]

I would have to max my Con as well as rely on a +4 Tome to hit 400 naturally. That takes quite a hit on my Strength and Cha. A single +6 Con item will take me to 400 with the current build. I'm sure I can get other sources as well. Most of the advice I've read says to take 1-1 at build. Most builds seem to start right around here or +2 higher at most. Yes, I'd love to have higher hp, but I want to deal damage more. Bumping Con 2 requires a drop in cha (and loss of DM 3) or a drop in Strength (not sure how much it would hurt). How hard is it to add 80hp or so? (really asking)

Depends.

If your natural HP is at 322, let's do some math shall we.

Minos Legens takes about 20 strips of Tapestry. It will give you 20 HP (that stacks with a Green steel health item) and heavy fortification. This takes your HP to 342 (I am going by the HP listed in your OP here).

Green Steel health item (at Great Commander level [getting both the weapon GS, and the health GS prior to hitting level 20 is extremely unlikely due to the drop rate of large shroud mats {especially large devil scales which rarely drop for most people}) will give you 25 more hit points, which takes you up to 367. If you can upgrade it fully, you'd get 45 more hit points from that item, leaving you with 392

Tier 2 Argonessen favor takes you up another 10 hit points, leaving you with 377 (or 402 if you fully upgraded the Greensteel health item) HP.

If you were to obtain and use CON tomes, your HP would go even further by a bit, and you would get slightly more hit points per level (especially if you use a +1 con tome @ level 3).

A +6 Con (usually from amrath quests in the form of a belt) item might take you slightly above 400 HP.

[shadow_419]

I dont understand why you would want to start with a wisdom at 8, when its easy enough to make it a 10 or 12. Why not drop con to 14 and make wis a 10/12 (not to sure here, Im at work and no access to that sort of stuff)? Is 20hps at lvl 20 really worth that much?

With thf, pure Paladins have three main stats Str, Con, Cha. A Paladin only has to reach a total of 14 wis at lvl 14 to cast all their spells. This is why dumping wis is a smart idea for the long term. In the early lvls it stings a little that you cant cast, but you'll still have wand usage and LoH available for self healing.

Without a 34 pt bulid, and the penalty to cha on H-Orcs, it's very hard to reach a high level of DM. Fortunately H-Orcs have a +4 racial damage enhancements through AP that'll help make up the difference.

If this was going to be a multiclass I'd start with different stats, but a pure Pally would do better end game with my original stats imho.

edit: @ HippyPimp looking over your revised build plan I caught a common mistake. Make sure any skills you invest points into end in an even number at lvl 20. A half rank does nothing for you as the skill is rounded down not up. Another mistake is spending skill points on abilities that are controlled by your main stat STR. Swiming and jumping are skills that will usually be high anyway because of the addition of your str modifier to the total skill score.