Dwarf Stunner Cleric (Cleric17/Monk2/Fighter1)

[ConnorMacLoad]

So the plan here is to create an acceptable healer that can also make an effective trash stunner/melee fighter. I know this build has more potential than I can understand for it, and I am pretty stoked to learn it as I go.

Just looking for general feedback and a bit of a comb over. I understand there is probably more ubersauce gear and stuff that I could get, but this printout is just of the things I either have right now, or can get access to easily.

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 17 Cleric)
Hit Points: 319
Spell Points: 1238
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 11
Will: 21


(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 16 (+6 enh, +2 Rage, -2 stance) 22
Dexterity 15 17 (+6 enh, +1 Ship **If possible I would like to get 3 exceptional here too**) 24 (maybe 27, 28 if we get a +2 ship buff)
Constitution 16 18 (+6 enh, +2 Rage) 26
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 16 26 (+6 enh, +3 exc, +2 Stance, +2 yugo, +1 ship) 40
Charisma 8 8


Rough AC breakdown
Base: 10
Wisdom: 15
Dex: 7 (heavens align and I am able to get all I want)
AC: 6
DT Dodge: 3
Choas/Mabar: 2
Protection: 5
Haste: 1
Ship: 2
Barkskin: 3
Recitation: 2
----------
56

+4 Insight, if it works with build, not a goal.
---------
60

With a Ranger/Bard/amazing Paladin
+2
+4
+6
---------
72 (-2 when raged) 70


Stunning DC
Base: 10
Wisdom: 15
Monk: 1
Weapon: 10
Dwarf Tactics: 3
-----------
39


Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 (optional, I just have an extra one)
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7



Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 18
Concentration 7 28

Feats
Level 1 Stunning Fist, Two Weapon Fighting
Level 2 Toughness
Level 3 Weapon Finesse
Level 6 Maximize Spell (am still bouncing the idea of power attack here, but I think my dex is too low to get away with it)
Level 9 Empower Healing Spell, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Level 15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 18 Quicken Spell


Enhancements
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics III
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[sirgog]

There's big miscalculations on the AC.

40 Wisdom is +15 AC not +20
24 Dex is +7 AC.

[Kmnh]

is the fighter level for the feat? you can go wizard instead, get a little more sp and use arcane wands, master's touch will grant weapon proficiencies.

[ConnorMacLoad]

There's big miscalculations on the AC.

40 Wisdom is +15 AC not +20
24 Dex is +7 AC.

Thank you sir. appreciated and changed

@ fighter: Yea, for the feat and a few other little things that I like.

[Clayness]

Its a good concept for a build, and I think going dwarf is a good pick.

A few nitpicks:

Weapon Finesse - I think you can easily skip this feat, your breakdown says that you will end up with 22 Strength and 24 Dexterity, which means weapon finesse will only give you an increase in +1 hit. You note that you will get 26 or 27 dex once you get an exceptional bonus, which means 28 possibly when you get a +2 shrine on your ship. You could instead get exceptional bonus to strength here, get hit AND damage, instead of purely hit. But if you're meleeing, you typically prefer to get the Burst effect on TOD rings, instead of stat boosts. Getting exceptional bonuses, especially +2, is tough if you go for Burst on your TOD rings (typically you go Holy/Shock).

You can use the Weapon Finesse, and potentially the Maximize, to pick up Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization to get +1 hit/+2 damage which will help you along greatly. Or you could go with Weapon Focus and Power Attack, getting the hit bonus to support Power Attack in most circumstances should be doable.

With your lower amount of Spell Points, Maximize is a bit dangerous, you can easily soak up alot of SP fast. You're already spreading your roles out when you go melee and healer, trying to add in offensive caster might spread them too thin. You won't have as many spell slots as a full cleric, and if you want to fulfill a healing role there's some spells that are considered must have, and you need some melee buffing spells to go along with the build too.

Your Stunning Fist DC looks fairly decent, running around with 42 or 43 on my Str-based monk myself, and can get away with stunning things in epics, as long as you know which mobs to focus on (let the arcanes handle Hold spells on the melee mobs, while you save your Stunning Fist for casters who tend to have lower Fort saves).

Good concept, looks fun to play, which is most important by far.

I got both a 20 cleric and a 20 monk myself, so feel free to ask if you want some pointers on how to put together their gear.

[ConnorMacLoad]

Its a good concept for a build, and I think going dwarf is a good pick.

A few nitpicks:

Weapon Finesse - I think you can easily skip this feat, your breakdown says that you will end up with 22 Strength and 24 Dexterity, which means weapon finesse will only give you an increase in +1 hit. You note that you will get 26 or 27 dex once you get an exceptional bonus, which means 28 possibly when you get a +2 shrine on your ship. You could instead get exceptional bonus to strength here, get hit AND damage, instead of purely hit. But if you're meleeing, you typically prefer to get the Burst effect on TOD rings, instead of stat boosts. Getting exceptional bonuses, especially +2, is tough if you go for Burst on your TOD rings (typically you go Holy/Shock).

You can use the Weapon Finesse, and potentially the Maximize, to pick up Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization to get +1 hit/+2 damage which will help you along greatly. Or you could go with Weapon Focus and Power Attack, getting the hit bonus to support Power Attack in most circumstances should be doable.

With your lower amount of Spell Points, Maximize is a bit dangerous, you can easily soak up alot of SP fast. You're already spreading your roles out when you go melee and healer, trying to add in offensive caster might spread them too thin. You won't have as many spell slots as a full cleric, and if you want to fulfill a healing role there's some spells that are considered must have, and you need some melee buffing spells to go along with the build too.

Your Stunning Fist DC looks fairly decent, running around with 42 or 43 on my Str-based monk myself, and can get away with stunning things in epics, as long as you know which mobs to focus on (let the arcanes handle Hold spells on the melee mobs, while you save your Stunning Fist for casters who tend to have lower Fort saves).

Good concept, looks fun to play, which is most important by far.

I got both a 20 cleric and a 20 monk myself, so feel free to ask if you want some pointers on how to put together their gear.

that is really awesome feedback, i appreciate it a ton! A buddy an have been looking it over trying to find a way to ditch fighter and pick up cleric 18 or monk 3. that looks to be a pretty viable option now.

It's also nice cause I do not have to tie myself to AC now. Before I was close enough that I felt I had to chase it a bit in order to get it there, now I can let it just happen and not worry about it.

So far got 1 to level 6 (then re-rolled for a different feat set) and it totally crushed lower level content ( I understand it is fairly meaningless to crush low level content, but it makes me feel good about it )

[satanofmetal]

The major problem i see on this build its the BAB. You need to be able to hit stuff in order to stun.
If you are not having around highs 40's at end game, you will not land a hit - thus, stun gets useless. Besides, usually a stunner handwraps gives you low to hit bonus, and your STR/DEX its not high enough to give you a good to hit bonus. End Game (Epics and Such) you need a BAB around 46 to hit maybe 85% of the time. The best way to find out if u got enough BAB, its trying to hit that with self buffs only (No titans grip and 20s buffs, or bard buffs.)

Try lvling that build and see how it wil works on epics

[whomhead]

The major problem i see on this build its the BAB.

Divine power gives you full BAB as if you were a fighter of the same level as your cleric. Problem solved!

[BLITHELY]

Did an 18/2 build not a bad cleric with pretty good survivability. Terrible melee though even with the stun the dps is way 2 low to take out mobs a real melee destroys quickly. Epic mobs forget it. Focus less on the melee aspects and more on the cleric. HAve fun beating on mobs til 14 -16 range and then become that cleric who heals and casts really nasty blade barriers or insta kill spells whichever u prefer. My 2 cents.

[Clayness]

Try to offer advice that help the OP towards accomplishing the build that he's aiming for, and not advice to go with another build. Battle cleric is an often berated build, mainly because of the problem with people who build battle clerics poorly (and the same thing is probably the cause for much of the negative opinion about rogues and rangers).

You can accomplish both decent melee damage and stunning DC's on a clonk (the nickname for cleric/monk splashes), and with 18 cleric you should be able to hold up as a raid healer as well, especially once you get some gear for it.

As mentioned, even with Divine Power you will experience hit issues, most melee characters have full BAB progression, and pump their strength and still have a few situations where their hit is lacking. Divine Favor and Divine Power helps offset some of this penalty, but not entirely. Even a pure monk has hit issues until you get the gear to overcome it.

Spectral Gloves or the Shimmering Arrowhead are nice options for overcomming the hit issue early on, later on you can epic the Spectral Gloves, or aim for the hit bonus from the Red Fens set (with the new Gem of Many Facets from Chronosphere, you can even mix together both Claw and Raven sets from Red Fens for +4 hit/damage).

And yes, AC is best left ignored in most cases, unless its what you aim for. I typically try to use either Bloodrage Symbiont or Golden Greaves to gain a bit of DR while levelling (or Stoneskin Plate or a plain Adamantine armor on heavy armor toons).