Water an mountain stance - Pure monk - Anyone knows a build?

[Zess-wolf]

I was thinking about, and i´ve never seen a pure monk that was a Main user of mountain or water instance, and was curious to know about it...is there any build that works well with those two, or even a multiclass of 2 lv.s only (18 monk/2 xxxxx)

Thanks all

[ProdigalGuru]

The Ultimate Mountain Stance is pretty handy...

[Zess-wolf]

The Ultimate Mountain Stance is pretty handy...

I´m not saying that they are useless or something like that, i just want to know if theres a good build using them, or if they are good when being used and so

[ProdigalGuru]

You are essentially weighing the benefits of DR and AC vs. move speed and increased attack vs. increased Ki generation.

HP change is a factor as well.

I never found Water stance particularly useful.


In other words:

If you really want to spam Ki strikes, you are probably going to like Fire Stance.
If you want more survivability, Mountain Stance is for you.
If you want more passive DPS, and need that extra move speed, Wind Stance is where you should look.

My preference is Mountain, as it DOES have some Ki generation properties, the Ki strikes are Untyped damage, and the DR/AC/HP can only help you.

My second preference is Wind, as I like to go fast, and sometimes you you just aren't getting hit anyways, regardless of DR/AC.

[voodoogroves]

I often start monk off using mountain through korthos and the harbor ... DR2 is just that handy until you get invulnerability. On my capped monk I usually stayed in fire but when soloing or facing that hail of arrows I dropped to mountain. Of course at cap it doesn't stack, so I basically never use it now.

[Tobril]

Generally speaking people are using sun stance. (with the occasional wind holdout)


They do so because:

HP is usually enough, thus not needing earth (certain tanking situations excepted)
DC's for stuns are usually enough, thus not needing water


Sun stance is really crucial for ki generation to maintain stuns and/or touch of death as appropriate. This need greatly outweighs (in my experience) the usefulness of the other stances.

[Maldavenous]

The only thing I've ever found Water Stance to be useful for is increasing my DCs slightly against opponents I knew would have higher saves and for running through traps.

My monk prefers to use Fire Stance when she has enough AC/gains enough health from curse of healing and Mountain Stance when she doesn't.

If I were going to rebuild my monk I'd focus on Fire/Earth instead of being more balanced.

[Angelus_dead]

If you want more survivability, Mountain Stance is for you.

Except that reducing movement speed, armor class, saving throws, knockdown resistance, and Ki income reduces survivability.

If you want more passive DPS, and need that extra move speed, Wind Stance is where you should look.

Wind Stance does not improve move speed.

My preference is Mountain, as it DOES have some Ki generation properties, the Ki strikes are Untyped damage, and the DR/AC/HP can only help you.

Of course everyone trains Mountain for the strikes, but that doesn't mean using the stance.

[Silverr]

Also, AC will go down in mountain stance, not up. Wind stance will put AC up, as will Water. Personally, Wind and Earth stance are my two favourites. Wind for the doublestrikes and attack speed, Earth for the strikes and the extra DPS that comes with using those. I mainly use Wind, and wearing Oremi's necklace, I have way too much Ki to use up with ToD, finishers, Stuns, and stance/alignment strikes. Fire stance is not necessary for extra ki.

[azrael4h]

I found Water useful for certain runes. That's about it. Never even tried Earth, though I do use the strikes, or did. Mostly, I stick to Wind or Fire, depending on my mood.

Of course now, my old Monk is dead and gone, and only recently have I considered a new one, which I've built but never played.

[Tobril]

Also, AC will go down in mountain stance, not up. Wind stance will put AC up, as will Water. Personally, Wind and Earth stance are my two favourites. Wind for the doublestrikes and attack speed, Earth for the strikes and the extra DPS that comes with using those. I mainly use Wind, and wearing Oremi's necklace, I have way too much Ki to use up with ToD, finishers, Stuns, and stance/alignment strikes. Fire stance is not necessary for extra ki.

Sun stance is indeed needed to generate ki for a light monk while bypassing DR via the Shintao set. (can't use oremi and shintao at the same time)

[Angelus_dead]

Sun stance is indeed needed to generate ki for a light monk while bypassing DR via the Shintao set. (can't use oremi and shintao at the same time)

Why would anyone want to bypass DR with the Shintao set? Is there any monster with DR/Evil that you care about?

[Tobril]

Why would anyone want to bypass DR with the Shintao set? Is there any monster with DR/Evil that you care about?

My bad, went brain-dead for a moment.

You'll still want it for the hit and damage over oremi.

[Angelus_dead]

You'll still want it for the hit and damage over oremi.

Well, the Doublestrike from Wind stance increases your damage by more than the Shintao set and Fire strength does (especially since some of your active attacks will proc again on the double)

[Jaid314]

ideally your gear (handwraps or ToD ring) will let you bypass the good part of the DR anyways, so you aslo likely don't need shintao set...

[porq]

Mountain stance pairs well with the Jidz Tetka bracers. It bumps up your unarmed damage die by 1, but beyond that I can't think of an offensive reason to use mountain stance.

Why would anyone want to bypass DR with the Shintao set? Is there any monster with DR/Evil that you care about?

Yes, there is. It's very niche, but if you ever find yourself looking to solo Running with the Devils, breaking the celestial mob's DR is helpful, especially for the red named near the end. I ended up putting unholy burst on a ring for that sole purpose(and to be different).

[Tobril]

Well, the Doublestrike from Wind stance increases your damage by more than the Shintao set and Fire strength does (especially since some of your active attacks will proc again on the double)

I would be interested in a comparison of wind vs fire, as I feel the higher strength, shintao set, and ability to spam strikes without ki issues outweighs the loss of doublestrike from wind.

Extra healing is also a mild benefit from remaining in sun, although that alone should not be calculated into a dps calculation beyond the survivability consideration.

I don't have the math background for this, however, and the dps calc spreadsheet didn't have monk strikes listed on it last time I checked.

[Red_Knight]

Uhm, how do people figure using mountain stance reduces AC? Yeah, you lose 1 point of AC from dex. But it also gives Natural armor. I was thinking of doing a mountain stance monk to try it out.

And while the DR from mountain stance doesn't stack with the 10/Epic DR... it'd be a nice backup for when things are bypassing your Epic DR.

[Zero_Tolerance]

I do put APs into Mountain, for strikes. As for using it, with Stonedust wraps you can get Stoneskin. I only got those wraps last night [took two ransacks...] so I'm not sure how viable it is to gear/stance change for the proc to happen. Other than that, its pretty useless. Natural armor can be provided by pots/gear/rangers. And tanking with it? I don't think monks are big on intimitanking. If you don't have any other DR, and you need some, go mountain. But DR5/magic gear is available from lvl4, so...

And water, sometimes for saves/DC. Rarely.

[t0r012]

fire gets occasional use from me but I tend to play more dex/wis builds and a lot of solo or in groups where haste is rare. So for me Wind is by far the better choice in almost all of my play time.

water being dex/wis I'll only use water to hit Wis runes early game when there isn't a cleric around.

Earth is a rarity, love the strikes but other than that never in earth.
the Devs seem to recognize this though. With the new items they have been adding like Jiz'd bracers and stonedust handwraps Earth stance is starting to look more appealing. not quite there yet but close enough that I have actually thought about what a Earth build would look/play like.

just a little more love and earth could be good. Water needs a serious overhaul before it gets any real use. +AC while tumbling, seriously?