The anti-cleric cleric

[Octavi]

Lets just say that for s hits and giggles I wanted to build the most effective melee + offensive cleric possible (no healing), what would it look like?. Before I attract a whole lot of flames "CLERICS JOB IS TO HEAL . . ." etc. etc. I have never tried to build one myself so it is more of an academic question than anything else. Any ideas?

Imagine the PUG rage

"WHERE'S MY HEALZ???!!!!"

[DToNE]

-MOST- caster 12 Cleric/8 DPS cleric builds fall into this category. Just look at those builds and you'll start to get the idea.

[Teldurn]

I imagine it would concentrate on the negative energy spells a lot (Inflict X Wounds, etc), if nothing else.

Also, in this context, you'd have one less spell slot per spell level to use automatically, since the Cure X Wounds cannot be unlearned, and the descriptions say so if you try.

[Noctus]

Go FvS and dont choose any healing spells.

[phalaeo]

To think of most effective you would not only have to consider stats, you have to consider slots for items as well. IMO, you can't fit both in to have the best of both worlds. Moderate or respectable of both worlds, yes- not best.

If you slot Spell pen in some slots, you lose key melee items. If you slot Power/Archmagi, you compromise slots. You could slot Potency in the neck slot...

And then how do you account for how to spend AP? Is it multi'ed? Past Life Feats? Where to put level ups?

To be honest, why melee when you can throw Blade Barriers that hit for 600 dmg a tic on a crit?

And when you say best at melee it can be- against trash? Against Raid Bosses? The best mob is a dead mob- Vorpal it- job done.

[vVAnjilaVv]

May want to wait and make a half-elf so u can take the fighter Dilettante feat, u will get proficiency with all martial weapons. Losing the extra human feat might cost u empower tho if u plan on taking power attack and toughness.

[twix]

I get so confused by builds such as what the op described.Why in the world if you have access to cure/heal spells would you not use them to benefit yourself and your party members? Very confusing concept of a build and personally i think it makes no sense what so ever. Just my opinion of course.

[Zachski]

I get so confused by builds such as what the op described.Why in the world if you have access to cure/heal spells would you not use them to benefit yourself and your party members? Very confusing concept of a build and personally i think it makes no sense what so ever. Just my opinion of course.

Spitefulness?

You'd think that, being able to heal, players would be treating them well, but mostly, they take them for granted.

[twix]

Spitefulness?

You'd think that, being able to heal, players would be treating them well, but mostly, they take them for granted.

You must play with the wrong group then.Or else you are too nice in pugs. Im never taken for granted because as soon as i am i tend to slide the wrong doers to the bottom of my heal list.I have played mostly battle clerics and offensive based healers and have never had a problem healing and meleeing or healing and casting.Not sure why some people do.And to not take/use any heal spells at all? Thats nothing but idiotic. Not even healing yourself? Also idiotic. Just my opinions once again.

[JollySwagMan]

while it is an academic question, the answer you seek is

Go FvS and dont choose any healing spells.

[Zachski]

You must play with the wrong group then.Or else you are too nice in pugs. Im never taken for granted because as soon as i am i tend to slide the wrong doers to the bottom of my heal list.I have played mostly battle clerics and offensive based healers and have never had a problem healing and meleeing or healing and casting.Not sure why some people do.And to not take/use any heal spells at all? Thats nothing but idiotic. Not even healing yourself? Also idiotic. Just my opinions once again.

Yes, I am too nice in parties.

There's also the whole thing of establishing the idea that a Cleric is not synonymous with "healer". That Clerics can be so many other things than a healer.

Truth be told, I really think Clerics should get an additional spell slot per spell level simply because if Cure X Wounds is supposed to represent a spontaneous cast ability, it shouldn't take up a spell slot for other spells that can be slotted. The whole idea is that it turns other spells into Cure X Wounds. I'm pretty sure this doesn't mean you have to have at least one Cure X Wounds prepared in order to convert other spells in PnP, so why should it mean something different in DDO?

[FlyingTurtle]

Truth be told, I really think Clerics should get an additional spell slot per spell level simply because if Cure X Wounds is supposed to represent a spontaneous cast ability, it shouldn't take up a spell slot for other spells that can be slotted.

Erm. That's already the case. (Ignore the note on the wiki that says the numbers do not include spontaneous casting: it's wrong)
http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleric
Compare with:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm
Notice that all the numbers for DDO cleric are bumped up by (at least) 1 compared with the standard d20 table (including the +1 domain spell, not including extra spells for high wis)

[Bloodlance]

if you go offencive, do high wis, high cha toon with lots of SP to use in offencive spells only. heighten and 1x spell pen feat.+enchantments to spell pen.

you can heal with radiant servant, like 13-15 turn undeads easily @ lvl 15 now, and by getting 1 per 2mins back means you can pretty much AoE heal the group with them per quest. bonus is, it harms undead a lot and is AoE.

[Looonatic]

I get so confused by builds such as what the op described.Why in the world if you have access to cure/heal spells would you not use them to benefit yourself and your party members? Very confusing concept of a build and personally i think it makes no sense what so ever. Just my opinion of course.

I don't think the OP is suggesting leaving healing spells out of his toolbars. Or refusing to use them on himself and/or party members. I think the OP is saying that he intends to take feats, enhancements, equipment and/or spells designed to make him a better fighter and caster rather than a better healer.

[der_kluge]

Pal20

[Chette]

I don't understand all of these people who seem to think that anything other than a capstoned cleric fully speced out for healing output can't heal.

Do you have cleric levels? Do you have any spell points at all? Congratulations, you can heal.

That's all there is to it.

If you don't want to heal, don't heal, but every cleric can, no matter how crazy the build.

[Natashaelle]

The basic flaw in the concept, and a guildy of mine actually *tried* it btw , is a simple and devastating one :

If you can't heal others, you can't heal yourself -- and you will DIE.

Do you have cleric levels? Do you have any spell points at all? Congratulations, you can heal.

That's all there is to it.

If you don't want to heal, don't heal, but every cleric can, no matter how crazy the build.

Not if you have 10 Wisdom, you can't...