running around buffless makes your cleric cry

[unscythe]

If buffs are needed, people will get im.
If they run off
then a timely "Ding" will be in order.

I hate standing around for 2 minutes due to "buffing"
Pug shroud I joined gave every divine buff at the entrance.. "yay"
Didn't know you needed mass protect versus portals....


A healer sets the pace for the insufficient.
The self-sufficient just move forward.
The lost hope to find the next shrine after you have cleared everything.

Experience changes play style-I am less inclined to wait for useless buffs then when I started playing.

[blametroi]

At least you're a cleric. How bout being a spellsinger bard in an undead dungeon? Where everyone dashes off? Makes you feel kinda useless for being in a party... I don't mind throwing targeted spell buffs on the run, but please a short group hug for songs, good hope, and haste isn't too much now is it?

I did my first tempest spine with my bard this past weekend and the guy who invited me in (guildy) said "throw a song" and I had to say "to whom? there's no one here but me" ... I can throw a song on the run but not if they don't stay in range.

Very frustrating. I love having buffers in a party when I'm on a melee, but I don't know how dedicated buffers put up with most of us.

[blametroi]

If buffs are needed, people will get im.
If they run off
then a timely "Ding" will be in order.

...

A healer sets the pace for the insufficient.
The self-sufficient just move forward.
The lost hope to find the next shrine after you have cleared everything.

Experience changes play style-I am less inclined to wait for useless buffs then when I started playing.

I have a couple of issues with this.

I have to hope that people learn from dying but they seem to spend more time whining than learning.

The "self-sufficient just move forward" is the wrong approach IMO. If you're in a party, you need to work as a party, not individual zergers or two separate groups just because one group is self sufficient. That's just bad tactics and makes the quest harder for everyone except you 'self sufficient' types.

The less self sufficient (insufficient is just insulting) can't learn how to become more self sufficient this way, don't learn good tactics, and instead think that ignoring the rest of the party is how this should be done.

If you want to solo, just solo.

[MeliCat]

I have a couple of issues with this.

I have to hope that people learn from dying but they seem to spend more time whining than learning.

The "self-sufficient just move forward" is the wrong approach IMO. If you're in a party, you need to work as a party, not individual zergers or two separate groups just because one group is self sufficient. That's just bad tactics and makes the quest harder for everyone except you 'self sufficient' types.

The less self sufficient (insufficient is just insulting) can't learn how to become more self sufficient this way, don't learn good tactics, and instead think that ignoring the rest of the party is how this should be done.

If you want to solo, just solo.

I don't think it's necessary to move as a whole group together if that's what you mean. Self sufficient zergers can zerg away for all I care. The good players who also zerg though will come back and work with the party when they need to and zerg away when they don't. They'll see that my cleric is looking after the rest of the party and go off and do their own thing although maybe occasionally come and help.

What annoys me is players that are *not* that good who *think* they are... they run off by themselves and get themselves badly hurt (eg being buffless doesn't help, being unable to save through traps doesn't help... etc, etc).

Generally the first time I group with a pug I'll be ulta-conservative with my sp in case I'm going to need it a lot. When I discover I'm with a bunch of self sufficient zergers I then have fun blasting things myself.

The particular group who set off my ire that caused this thread I *thought* were self sufficient but I discovered this was very much not true. I'm really surprised that they can get to level 17, lead quests and still be this way.

[nayozz]

You must be awesome in lvl 10 content, lol. Ever run a raid? Just asking..

yeah i usually organize raids, it depends on the period... sometimes i run only raids, sometimes i only help low level guildmates new to the game, giving them advice, potions, and some items... sometimes i am too tired to lead a raid and so: i solo it, if not "possible" like vod, shroud etc i will just do a smooth GUILD run half dizzy...

by the way... about buffing: i usually offer fire shield scrolls to bards, rogues... and in case explain them why could be useful to use in pt 4 and 5

when i see a post complaing about people not waiting for buffs, i think to normal quests...
not about pt 4 and 5 :P
i do not pretend everyone to have every buff selfcast or potions to be self sufficient...
just i dont want to cast, or wait someone casting on me millions of buffs for a normal quest...

[MeliCat]

yeah i usually organize raids, it depends on the period... sometimes i run only raids, sometimes i only help low level guildmates new to the game, giving them advice, potions, and some items... sometimes i am too tired to lead a raid and so: i solo it, if not "possible" like vod, shroud etc i will just do a smooth GUILD run half dizzy...

by the way... about buffing: i usually offer fire shield scrolls to bards, rogues... and in case explain them why could be useful to use in pt 4 and 5

when i see a post complaing about people not waiting for buffs, i think to normal quests...
not about pt 4 and 5 :P
i do not pretend everyone to have every buff selfcast or potions to be self sufficient...
just i dont want to cast, or wait someone casting on me millions of buffs for a normal quest...

i'm sorry but you sound really odd. which GUILD are you in?

and if you were reading this thread you would note that we're NOT talking about "millions of buffs" but we're talking about the difference betweeen completely buffless and basic buffs.

[Aranticus]

i'm sorry but you sound really odd. which GUILD are you in?

and if you were reading this thread you would note that we're NOT talking about "millions of buffs" but we're talking about the difference betweeen completely buffless and basic buffs.

ie like asking for stoneskin for the majority of running with devils

[Slink]

Nowdays, I am just happy to find a clr/fvs that knows how to heal a little or has buffs memmed, let alone be on the recieving end of some.

[MeliCat]

Nowdays, I am just happy to find a clr/fvs that knows how to heal a little or has buffs memmed, let alone be on the recieving end of some.

i am *completely* paranoid about being a sucky healer and have dropped guild multiple times because of it. but recently i find myself in pugs and i'm thinking, wow, i should roll more healers 'cos i reckon i could do better here...

looking at my 2nd ever character - which is a game built cleric with 17 strength 16 wis (shudder - i prefer casters). i don't want to reroll but am wondering about a complete rebuild. she's 7. could be amusing to level her for a bit. she has really randomn skill points. i may just let the game level her and see what happens...

[Jay203]

Shall they so as am buffing and my bloody patient worn thin and the party be more of an even pace type group...

1. My disruptors and bludgeoning greater undead banes are handy. Cast my buffs only on myself - long to short duration ending with haste and play my songs rebuffing on the run ...
2. Run past the party fighting mobs - hopefully are no real efficient arcane in group.
3. Play music of the dead cross every group of mob I encounter...
4. high tail it as far ahead of party as I may maintain (hoping the party sees fascinated mob and think I left it CC'd for killin')
5. I may kill a few mob along the way shall DA start to climb... but I wish to leave most the mob fascinated.
6. When I get to the boss I'll kill it!
   
   • finish the quest
   • loot the last chest
   • DD and rush out the door

I believe most long term players of bards ... will agree it is very nice to have music of the dead, fact is both my spell singer and chanter have it without loss to anything in Inspired courage or any of their other bardic ablities - quite simple bards are song. Invest in perform and your bard will perform for you.

but then again, no one will complain should you do otherwise anyways 'cause you're Emi xD

[Mrkita]

I've come to the appreciation of receiving Buffs.
Originally being a barbarian, I wouldn't demand buffs, but kinda got used to expecting them to happen, BS, SOF, inspired courage etc etc. Now that I'm playing a bard a bit more, the rolls have changed and I'm the one now dealing out the buffs, and i found it suprising the first few times when everyone stood around, waiting for me to buff them... I wasn't taken aback for just a little suprised, then I realised. That's what I did when I was on my Barbarian.
And now on my bard when I run out of songs at times and we hadn't got to the next shrine, people got slightly ticked off at me for not being able to boost them up. Wasn't really a fan of that, but then realised (again) that I was like that too, so quickly shut my mouth.

Buffs are fairly central to a lot of questing and Raiding, But i have come to the conclusion of don't complain about not getting buffed and complaining about the person who has to buff until you put yourself in that position youself and played the Bard/cleric/fvs in a raid.

[Slink]

I did know of a particularly good cleric who got blacklisted for handing out more than the leader asked for at start of a shroud speed run...

That is just pathectic.

Havent seen her around much since then.

[unscythe]

I have a couple of issues with this.

I have to hope that people learn from dying but they seem to spend more time whining than learning.

The "self-sufficient just move forward" is the wrong approach IMO. If you're in a party, you need to work as a party, not individual zergers or two separate groups just because one group is self sufficient. That's just bad tactics and makes the quest harder for everyone except you 'self sufficient' types.

The less self sufficient (insufficient is just insulting) can't learn how to become more self sufficient this way, don't learn good tactics, and instead think that ignoring the rest of the party is how this should be done.

If you want to solo, just solo.

It really does depend, if the party is moving at a snails pace on the main path and diverting to all the side-optionals, and you have to basicallyhave to carry them, then I'll solo the main path-after a quick warning or suggestion of skipping optionals.

I don't join pugs to take 3-5 times longer in the quest. Over-buffing is a waste of time, sp, and even buffs themselves on normal quests.

No buff will ever cover the inadequacy of a player and their character.

[unscythe]

i am *completely* paranoid about being a sucky healer and have dropped guild multiple times because of it. but recently i find myself in pugs and i'm thinking, wow, i should roll more healers 'cos i reckon i could do better here...

looking at my 2nd ever character - which is a game built cleric with 17 strength 16 wis (shudder - i prefer casters). i don't want to reroll but am wondering about a complete rebuild. she's 7. could be amusing to level her for a bit. she has really randomn skill points. i may just let the game level her and see what happens...

I didn't think you were a bad healer back in Feburaury.

[elujin]

it makes bard cry too.

then again if they don't want +7 to dmg and blur and haste il keep it for my self and out kill them

[PowerOfRaistlin]

The less self sufficient (insufficient is just insulting) can't learn how to become more self sufficient this way, don't learn good tactics, and instead think that ignoring the rest of the party is how this should be done..
but what is poo but by any other name just as stinky?

response in red