Advice needed to polish build (17Cleric/3Monk)

[Bloodlance]

Hi All

Here is some points i keep in mind, or would like to keep in mind,

* not a melee cleric (should focus on BBs etc spells and just take it like a girl )

* IF can get monk healing aura benefits with cleric healing aura, what changes does this build need to achive a 1vs1 situtation where one can just hang on "boss" and leech and survive ? i assume one needs to cast em healing spells anyway, but pointers needed if someone has some.

* focuses on healing and possibility to perhaps solo some high lvl content on lvl 20 ? with BBs and healing aura + spells?

* with all possible HPs and High Wisdom perhaps high dmg BBs ? and better survivality then normally ? (solo)

* also perhaps could BB and just kite mobs/"bosses" to death, if its even possible.

* eating a dex +3 tome later

* Skills, clueless what one needs on high level, HALP



initial build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Butsy Hutsy
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
(3 Monk \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 396
Spell Points: 1102 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 9
Will: 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                 10                   10
Dexterity            11                 13                   13
Constitution         20                 22                   24
Intelligence         10                 12                   12
Wisdom               17                 24                   24
Charisma              6                  8                   10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               0                 10                   14
Bluff                -2                  0                    0
Concentration         9                 28                   28
Diplomacy            -2                  0                    0
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                  0                    0
Heal                  3                  7                    9
Hide                  0                  1                    1
Intimidate           -2                  0                    0
Jump                 -1                  7                    7
Listen                3                  7                    7
Move Silently         0                  1                    1
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  1                    1
Search                0                  1                    3
Spot                  3                  7                    7
Swim                 -1                  0                    0
Tumble                n/a                2                    2
Use Magic Device      0                 11                   11

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

So, there it is, advice and pointers needed, enchantments were done a bit quick, but the good thing is, its only a plan on paper at this moment

[Dracnoth]

Do you have the gear for this build (I would assume so given 34 point build)? Clonks are pretty gear restrictive, Sup Pot VI kama's go for like 2million plat on my server that's on a good day when you can find em. Also with an 8 base str, when you go into ocean that's going to drop to 6. You will be able to carry the gear you have on you and that's about it. Dex you are going to want higher as without a high dex evasion is kind of pointless. You need to spread your stats around a bit more I think. Con is great but I'd maybe put a couple more into str so you don't become uncentered/incapped when you get exhaustion or str dmg. I know it's less common but with a cha that low you can get incapped from cha damage as well.

I would do a quick search at some of the other builds out there as there are some nice clonk ones, really wouldn't recommend dwarf either. I'd take a level of monk first (extra skill points).. this build needs a lot of work to be viable tbh.

[Gnorbert]

you have 3 monk bonus feats listed (all 3 toughness) when you only get 2 with 3 monk levels. Also, you have imp crit bludgeon but you don't even have TWF... so not sure how you plan to use that imp crit. Not sure why you intend to eat a +3 dex tome... that will only get you to 14 dex which is still not enough for TWF.

Your only means of offence appears to be spells but you didn't max your casting stat.

You won't get very far with your healing auras with 6 Cha... you'll only have 4 turn undead attempts after a +2 tome, +2 enhancements and +6 Cha item. This might be ok for a few fights but I wouldn't rely on it as part of your overall build philosophy.

Having high HP is a good thing but it should never be the main focus of a build.

[Bloodlance]

Hi

This is a long term build, should get +6 items on it and or greensteels. Prolly need to switch more points to dex, to get it higher in the "endgame" for evasion.

i like my toons with robes

[Bloodlance]

you have 3 monk bonus feats listed (all 3 toughness) when you only get 2 with 3 monk levels. Also, you have imp crit bludgeon but you don't even have TWF... so not sure how you plan to use that imp crit. Not sure why you intend to eat a +3 dex tome... that will only get you to 14 dex which is still not enough for TWF.

Your only means of offence appears to be spells but you didn't max your casting stat.

You won't get very far with your healing auras with 6 Cha... you'll only have 4 turn undead attempts after a +2 tome, +2 enhancements and +6 Cha item. This might be ok for a few fights but I wouldn't rely on it as part of your overall build philosophy.

Having high HP is a good thing but it should never be the main focus of a build.

Handwraps = unarmed ? http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:...eoning_Weapons
( or is handwraps not unarmed ? i am confused )

True, but the amount of turn undeads is a bit irrelevant for me, they regen with servant spec. (also i tend to semi afk do quests with my 2nd computer while i look movies etc so getting 1 turn undead back per 2min or so is all ok).

I was aiming to have a big hp buffer so the healing aura and monk healing aura on boss/mob (while i pound it with my handwraps) would give me steady hp back, so it would mean i use less mana to the actual heals.

--

good points, Gnorbert, Thanks

[DToNE]

Judging from the look of the build, you're probably aiming to use the SP reduction move.

How do you manage to get your first level monk feat to use on toughness when you picked Cleric? You might wanna revise that. I'm also not sure why you're putting points into UMD, seems rather illogical as you can't get it to a suitable amount to use even the most basic arcane buff wands. Since it's a caster build, I wouldn't recommend taking up any physical feats, such as IC: Bludgeoning. It's also likely that you're going to be using Water stance, which is a -2 hit to STR to get +2 to WIS. This REALLY pushes you back in the accuracy dept.

You might wanna consider trading one of your monk level toughness feats for Stunning Fist. It's DC=10+Monk Level+WIS Modifier. Your WIS modifier should hit 11 no problem with 3 levels of monk. Grab a stunning+10 handwrap and you'll be sitting on a DC=34 stunning fist assuming you land the hit.

You don't have full Cleric levels and you're aiming to be a caster type. I recommend picking up Heighten Spell at some point.

If you plan to do some massive damage with spells, you need Empower spell as well, I don't see it anywhere.

Your reflex score is also very low, it's hard to imagine that you'll evade anything thrown from anything more powerful than a Kobold. Sure, you have the HP to absorb a few delayed fireballs, but you don't have the evasion to dodge any of them. Might as well not even have Evasion at all.

If you plan to take UMD, take a Rogue level early, if not lose the INT as the low UMD score isn't helping. Fortunately, there isn't really anything in the game that damages your INT score that'd render you helpless.

Other than that, you might wanna revise your build a bit, especially with Maximize that early in the build.

I'll also note that your hand-to-hand swing speed will be pretty slow considering that you don't have any TWF feats.

[JollySwagMan]

Hmm - I think you might have the wrong idea about 3 levels of Monk.

You have to hit stuff to bust out Monk combos on a regular basis.

have you looked at http://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Monk& ?

Note that Monks do not get a martial arts feat at level 3, instead they gain a philosophy which governs the focus of their melee attacks.

This build does not have very much going for it in terms of melee. Thus you may lose the primary benefit of going 3 monk.

[Dracnoth]

Maybe go 17 clr/2 mnk/1 wiz?

Drop UMD as with the clr/wiz you'll have the scroll/wand angle covered so don't really *need* UMD. Threw something together as an example.. didn't do enhancements but I know someone who uses a build similar to this successfully. Might make more sense from a soloing caster standpoint since you said you didn't want to melee. If you don't need mass:heal (since you said it would just be you and your friend most of the time) then you can always take those monk levels a lot earlier. The earlier you get evasion the better I guess. For me it's all about leveling quickly, the wiz level 1 isn't bad at least you get exp retreat, master's touch and shield. Should help speed things up a bit.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Female
(2 Monk \ 17 Cleric \ 1 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 300
Spell Points: 1162 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 11
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    12
Dexterity            14                    16
Constitution         17                    19
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom               18                    25
Charisma              6                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    27
Bluff                -2                    -1
Concentration         7                    25
Diplomacy            -2                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -1
Heal                  4                     7
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -2                    -1
Jump                  0                     5
Listen                4                     7
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                  4                     7
Swim                  0                     1
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+1.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness

This is assuming you want to go dwarf for some reason, and is more caster oriented.

[smokeyser]

Just out of curiosity, why take the 3 levels of monk? It sounds like all you want to do is stand back semi-afk and throw heals while soloing sometimes using blade barrier (which gets a lot less useful as you approach 20, btw). Seems like a pure cleric would do better since you can wear heavier armor, use stats that make more sense for a healer, have access to more than 2 lvl 9 spells at a time, and gearing a pure cleric is WAY easier than gearing a cleric/monk.

With 8 str, it's only going to take one or possibly two ray of enfeeblement spells before you're rendered completely helpless. If you're really planning to solo with this character, that means certain death. And 13 dex at lvl 20 with tomes means no twf feat so the monk attacks will be mostly useless and choosing a monk path will not get you anything that you can actually use. As was already pointed out, your cha is only going to allow for 4 turn dead attempts. Your plan of using healing aura and BB to solo won't work without a crit aura, which means you're going to be using all 4 attempts to try for a crit. And even then you might be stuck for a few minutes waiting for another try. Once you get it, you're good for one minute. Then you'll be sitting for 8 min to wait for turn attempts before you can try again.

Personally, I'd drop the monk levels (or at least the melee feat), lower con to 14, raise str to 10 or 12, and put the rest of the points into cha. It sounds like you're planning to play this toon like an offensive caster. Why not build it like one?

[Gnorbert]

yes, handwraps = unarmed... but with no strength and no TWF you won't be hitting anything... let alone critting.

This character is just getting set up to be a cleric healer that is 3 caster levels behind the other clerics... with no real gain for it except more HP.

[Bloodlance]

nice posts, thanks a lot.

i was thinking something like dropping BB standing in it, and meleeing the hordes that storm on me. or jump around with extremely high jump skill. dont know about that jumping its kinda lame but works what ive heard.

idea was to get HP from aura and monk aura, and when having high hp myself the buffer would be so big that the auras are filling it up steadily.

but if its not viable then i am more interested about BB and using it with other cleric spells as backup. but would like to orient to above style if its doable.

[Bloodlance]

yes, handwraps = unarmed... but with no strength and no TWF you won't be hitting anything... let alone critting.

This character is just getting set up to be a cleric healer that is 3 caster levels behind the other clerics... with no real gain for it except more HP.

Tru, have already made changes a lot, will make more tomorrow, but now sleep time <3

thanks again for the responses