Khyber Drama Thread #608

[Eladiun]

As a side bar, it always makes me chuckle that if the profanity filter is on you are running Inferno of the *******.

[Shaamis]

Lately I have had issues with inventory.

hmm.... destroy ANY pots to pick up stone?
I think not!

fixed.

Cheers

[Renvar]

I call together the board of trustees today in order that we keep the monopoly of the peace and bring to light a certain person that has earned a special place on the naughty list.

Summary of the offense:
Nastiness for not receiving a heal every time he was fatigued while running Inferno of the Damned.

Quick highlight:
x: Can I get a heal, I'm fatigued.
me: No
x: You really are being a !@#$%
me: If you had lesser restoration pots, you wouldn't be having this problem, try asking if anyone can spot you.
x: Well I guess I shouldn't cast any more spells for the group either.

Rest of the quest:
x: Blah blah blah QQ blah blah blah

And with that, I adjourn the meeting, feel free to make discreet inquiries if you so desire.

Maybe I'm missing something as I don't normally play casters, but what impact does fatigue actually have on a caster anyways? Seems to be adverse for a melee, but for a caster is it even that big of a deal? By my thinking the caster is really making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Mobeius]

Maybe I'm missing something as I don't normally play casters, but what impact does fatigue actually have on a caster anyways? Seems to be adverse for a melee, but for a caster is it even that big of a deal?

Slows your movment too I think, if you're low strength it can encumber you, etc.

[Barumar]

Doing a Bastion of Power a while back, an 18th lvl ranger got cursed by something, and ran around with the curse up for an entire floor, before typing something like, "Well, is someone going to ****ing remove this curse from me, or what?"

I said to him, "You're a level 18 character, you should have Remove Curse pots or clickies on you--it isn't our responsibility to babysit you."

He *****ed and moaned about how I was being an elitist, and how simple a request it was, blah, blah, blah. He started cursing at me in party chat, and never stopped all through the rest of the quest, even though one of the other people ended up removing his curse after a bit.

After we finished, and just before he dropped, he said, "By the way, I normally have pots but ran out."

You are WAY more patient than I am - as I would have /Squelched him as soon as he started talking ****!

Oh, and I ALWAYS type the following into Party chat just before I do so:

/p /Squelch add ******inquestion

I LOVE the reaction I get from said ****** and the other party members .

Barumar

When did they add AzzHat (spelled correctly) to the filter? Was one of my favorite Aussie expressions (the Continent not the player recently converted to Monk loving from Bard!)

[Barumar]

Maybe I'm missing something as I don't normally play casters, but what impact does fatigue actually have on a caster anyways? Seems to be adverse for a melee, but for a caster is it even that big of a deal? By my thinking the caster is really making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It slows you down, which for a caster can be deadly!

To quote the master "Keep moving or Die!" Ok, first he said "Kill it first and no worries"

I keep resto the other self-heal pots handy on all characters, even if I can cast it or have a wand, but that is just me.

Barumar

[Rydin_Dirtay]

so what, this arcane is like level 15 and hasn't got around to buying a stack of lesser restoration pots?

The worst thing is, you link Potion of Lesser Restoration in the chat window, and they just get ticked at you!! Like you're trying to show them up! When all you are trying to do is help...

It wouldn't have happened in Mod8, I'm tellin you. They would have said, "oh didn't know that, ty". I'm startin to sound like beerman/disavowed.

[MeliCat]

Remove Curse pots? yes ... Cure Serious Wounds pots? yes ... Remove Disease pots? Situational if you don't have an item with it. Haste Pots? I have them on my Ranger. Lesser Restore? How often does someone really get fatigued in a quest? If you're a barb, I'd say yes. If you're anything else, then no. I have a bard, a FvS, a Ranger, and a wizard. I don't carry lesser restore on any of them, and I get fatigued maybe once or twice a week. If I'm alone, I just run to a shrine. If I'm with a group, I'd either go back to a shrine, or dump the rest of my sp on buffs and stay in the back of the party until we reach a shrine if there were a cleric/FvS who had the ability to but flat out refused to heal. I would have let the above conversation end at "no".

yeah but you'll be out doing something, away from your other party members, get hit by exhaust... and then becuase you can't run away.. you're going to die.

da da da dum!

all because you didn't bother to pick up like 10 lesser restore pots.

phail.

that said, i frequently forget to stock them - or pull them off one character intending to put them back on the other character and then forget.... ooops...


yeah love my resist 20 pots. so glad i have enough plat to be able to afford them. it really sucks to be a new player and not be able to afford basic stuff like restore pots.

(a lot of elec dmg in WW...)

also loving my collection of rings and cloaks of greater resists i have on my melees as atm i have the spare slots (meh on making GS hp items...) seriously helps out when you're getting debuffed all the time and you've got that greater resist elec going...

[NaturalHazard]

Im often absent minded sometimes and I run low or run out of lesser restore pots and even curse pots sometimes, often i realise before i get to the quest so I can go buy some but not always. So in quest if im low I will ask if anyone has a stack and if i can have some and give them plat to buy more with some interest.

Sometimes its good when i speak up because often you get someone saying "do we need those?" Conserving cleric and other casters mana is a good thing esp when you do quests on elite or quest with few rest shrines, also it saves them from doing a task you can do yourself by just drinking a pot, on top of everything else they have to do.

[PowerOfRaistlin]

my apologies for attempting to make the meeting a quick one with a brief summary. many of you have run with my healer dargena either on her first life or during this one. i did not fail to relieve his problem (at first). nor did ignore any of my duties as a healer.

i agree with healer preparedness, i routinely stock up on heal scrolls, generally 500 at a time as well as 100 gr restore scrolls and wands of remove curse and lesser restoration. i carry every buff i can and scroll the rest (ie ts). of 100 spots in my inventory, ~half are currently dedicated to supporting the party. it is not a role that i have to play as i have plenty of other characters, but it is a role that i do fulfill to help others learn and enjoy the game.

i do have considerable patience as a player and when you've gotten on my bad side, it took some considerable effort.

sorry for not including all the gory details, i forgot how voracious an appetite some people have for the finer details. suffice it to say, there was much grieving and precious few arcane buffs distributed as a result of not playing nanny.

fyi, no one died, no one else complained, and i was complimented on my patience and performance afterwords. oh yeah, this caster was a tr as well.

[phalaeo]

Sorry, but I am NOT carrying around Lesser Resto wands to whip other players past the early levels, and I consider myself to be a prepared Cleric. It comes in a pot and the effects of the pot are the same as off my bar.

I carry enough of an infirmary already.... quit being a miser and go buy a stack of pots... not that hard.

[CombatLibrarian]

Diiiiiid you mark the run byoh?

If so, bad arcane, bad, bad!

If not, I have no sympathy.

[blitzschlag]

Diiiiiid you mark the run byoh?

If so, bad arcane, bad, bad!

If not, I have no sympathy.

eh, lol, really

so unless i mark the lfm byoh i am responsible to remove all bad things from you?

for ppl like you they removed the permanency of all debuffs. with this attitude you would have payed lots of gold on the tavern healer until you learned that its cheaper to buy some pots/wands to remove it yourself.

i certainly would remove it for you in a bigger fight if you can carry your weight otherwise. between fights everyone is responsible for their own good.

[Calebro]

Diiiiiid you mark the run byoh?

If so, bad arcane, bad, bad!

If not, I have no sympathy.

It wasn't byoh. It was byo lowbie stuff that everyone should have in their own inventory.
If he told him No, he may have been in the process of typing out that they should drink a pot.... when the name calling started. Regardless of whether that was true or not, once the name calling started that dude would have been squelched if it were me.
Go ahead and cry all you want, because I wouldn't have been reading/hearing it.

[CombatLibrarian]

eh, lol, really

so unless i mark the lfm byoh i am responsible to remove all bad things from you?

for ppl like you they removed the permanency of all debuffs. with this attitude you would have payed lots of gold on the tavern healer until you learned that its cheaper to buy some pots/wands to remove it yourself.

i certainly would remove it for you in a bigger fight if you can carry your weight otherwise. between fights everyone is responsible for their own good.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I just don't agree. If I'm playing a dedicated healer, I cleanse stuff unless it's repeatedly occurring from the player's stupidity. I'll warn them once or twice in a situation like that, and then they're on their own. I'm not sure why my "attitude" means I would have stupidly purchased tavern heals when soloing rather than the available pots, or wands if I had the proper class or UMD level. But, hey, if you feel better punching that strawman, I'm won't stop you. (Maybe it gives you a bonus to posts after you beat on it for several minutes? ;P)

And if your run didn't have a dedicated healer, it's a byoh run.

It wasn't byoh. It was byo lowbie stuff that everyone should have in their own inventory.
If he told him No, he may have been in the process of typing out that they should drink a pot.... when the name calling started. Regardless of whether that was true or not, once the name calling started that dude would have been squelched if it were me.
Go ahead and cry all you want, because I wouldn't have been reading/hearing it.

Oh, no, I don't agree with the name calling in the slightest, especially if that's the order of events as they happened. So...okay, I'll amend. If it wasn't marked byoh I have -some- sympathy. More so if it was.

[Calebro]

I'm not sure why my "attitude" means I would have stupidly purchased tavern heals when soloing rather than the available pots, or wands if I had the proper class or UMD level.

He said nothing about solo'ing.
There are effects that any player should remove themselves, every time.
Curse.
Poison.
Temp stat damage.
Fatigue.

There is zero reason to ask anyone to remove these from you should they occur. Raging barbarians were the exception to this prior to guild vendors, but now there isn't even any reason for them to ask. The sole exception is if you run out. Period. And if you just ran out, you'd say so to begin with.

And it doesn't matter if there's a dedicated healer or not. In this game, mana bars do not replenish over time like they do in many other games. Asking the "healer" to constantly remove these affects from you reduces their usefulness in battle.
Asking them to remove these affects from you is self-centered play.
Taking care of these ailments yourself, even when there is a dedicated healer, is good teamwork because it saves other players' mana for when it's needed.

It's the same players that constantly ask for these things that blame the healers when they die.... even if said healer is out of mana because they were curing needless ailments.
If they spend all of their mana curing ailments, they won't have the mana needed to heal.
Playing a healer is a thankless job, and everything is always "their fault." Help them out a bit.

[CombatLibrarian]

He said nothing about solo'ing.
There are effects that any player should remove themselves, every time.
Curse.
Poison.
Temp stat damage.
Fatigue.

There is zero reason to ask anyone to remove these from you should they occur. Raging barbarians were the exception to this prior to guild vendors, but now there isn't even any reason for them to ask. The sole exception is if you run out. Period. And if you just ran out, you'd say so to begin with.

I'll agree to disagree. I might ask players if they can do this if it's a particularly horrible quest re: rest shrines vs. length. And some of those I would recommend getting mitigation items as the levels get high enough to make them easily accessible, such as poisons and diseases. Which takes me to...

And it doesn't matter if there's a dedicated healer or not. In this game, mana bars do not replenish over time like they do in many other games. Asking the "healer" to constantly remove these affects from you reduces their usefulness in battle.

Asking them to remove these affects from you is self-centered play.
Taking care of these ailments yourself, even when there is a dedicated healer, is good teamwork because it saves other players' mana for when it's needed.

Yes, I -did- notice something about mana bars not replenishing, but had dismissed it as a trick of my eyesight. Thanks for the clarification. ;P I think that perhaps because I don't agree with your take on this that you're presuming that all I've played in DDO is a dual pesh whee aggro fighter or a rage-around-the-corner barbarian, but no, I've done plenty of levels of healing in this game as well.

If it's not a mana starved quest, then telling your party to pot every status ailment is asking them to trade their paid resource for your free resource.

It's the same players that constantly ask for these things that blame the healers when they die.... even if said healer is out of mana because they were curing needless ailments.
If they spend all of their mana curing ailments, they won't have the mana needed to heal.
Playing a healer is a thankless job, and everything is always "their fault." Help them out a bit.

There are some quests out there where this is a heavy concern, but plenty where it isn't. Remember, as well, we were all noobs at one time or another in any game, and if you're a veteran and know you're heading into an instance that both features say...heavy amounts of cursing mobs and few and far between shrines, you might want to toss out a "Hey, if you don't have X pot, go grab a stack, you'll need it in here."

Now...I'm speaking in general terms here. In general, I've seen people get rude if you ever ask for a cleanse at all, even in an instance where you're far from mana starved. You've probably got a point too, but the discussion should be balanced.

[Calebro]

If it's not a mana starved quest, then telling your party to pot every status ailment is asking them to trade their paid resource for your free resource.

Have you ever looked at AH for mana pots?
When the healer runs out of mana because he spent it all on your lesser resto, or poison, or curse, or whatever, he's going to have to drink a mana pot to continue throwing heals around.
If you want to talk about resource consumption, mana pots and remove X pots can't even be compared.

[CombatLibrarian]

Have you ever looked at AH for mana pots?
When the healer runs out of mana because he spent it all on your lesser resto, or poison, or curse, or whatever, he's going to have to drink a mana pot to continue throwing heals around.
If you want to talk about resource consumption, mana pots and remove X pots can't even be compared.

I'll repeat myself.

If it's not a mana starved quest, then telling your party to pot every status ailment is asking them to trade their paid resource for your free resource.

What part of "If it's not a mana starved quest" didn't you understand, exactly? If it's not a mana starved quest, we're not comparing mana pots to resto pots. We're comparing MANA to resto pots.

[blitzschlag]

Have you ever looked at AH for mana pots?
When the healer runs out of mana because he spent it all on your lesser resto, or poison, or curse, or whatever, he's going to have to drink a mana pot to continue throwing heals around.
If you want to talk about resource consumption, mana pots and remove X pots can't even be compared.

to be fair thats usually no issue on casual/normal runs.

Yes, I -did- notice something about mana bars not replenishing, but had dismissed it as a trick of my eyesight. Thanks for the clarification. ;P I think that perhaps because I don't agree with your take on this that you're presuming that all I've played in DDO is a dual pesh whee aggro fighter or a rage-around-the-corner barbarian, but no, I've done plenty of levels of healing in this game as well.

If it's not a mana starved quest, then telling your party to pot every status ailment is asking them to trade their paid resource for your free resource.

there is no argumenting if you permanently feel personally involved here. no one implied nor said you would play a stupid melee. still thats the base of your argumentation. maybe someone would be right, if he/she would imply it...

anyway. those stupid melee's learned it the hard way (in the old days) when curses were permanent and stayed through dungeon exit. there were no khorthos +2 hit sets and no insight goggles back then. ever tried to do waterworks with -7 to hit (compared to today)? pots were/are expensive.
but dying was
a) not fun
b) you got xp penalty
c) not completing does not generate any cash.

so, sure, you could yell at the lvl 5 cleric to remove your curse but he most likely told you the same what you get told today (and rightfully so). don't have the spell. got more important ones to load. go buy a pot or hand me a wand...


to be more general:

be prepared to react yourself if something happenes that does influence the effectivity of your role in the group.