Pale Master (and other enhancement) Stacking?

[Dunfalach]

Do the damage and critical boosts from the Pale Master enhancements stack with item boosts to negative energy? Or is it a highest bonus only? For instance, PM1 states: "deal 25% additional damage with negative energy spells, and have a 3% chance for negative energy spells to generate a critical result for 1.5 times the normal damage amount"

So, if I have a superior nullification item equipped, do I get 25% bonus from PM1 *and* 50% bonus for the item? Or just 50% from the item? The same question would go for critical chance and multiplier as well from a lore item.

2) As a more general question while I'm at it, do the Lineage and Manipulation enhancement lines stack with items of the same element?

3) When a spell has a max damage (Chill touch, for instance, states a max of 5d6), do the bonuses from enhancements and items still stack on top of this limit, or do they get cut off? I'm pretty sure the answer is that they stack, but figured I may as well confirm while I'm asking the questions.

[Visty]

1) yes, items stack with enhancements
2) lineage is crit, manipulation is damage. they cant stack cause they do differant things
3) it exceeds the limit

[Dunfalach]

1) yes, items stack with enhancements
2) lineage is crit, manipulation is damage. they cant stack cause they do differant things
3) it exceeds the limit

For #2, I didn't mean Lineage stacking with manipulation, I meant lineage stacking with lore items and manipulation stacking with damage items. But your #1 answer answered that anyway. Thank you!

One more question. Do we know what the calculation is for applying enhancements and items? Say, a Superior Nullification item and the Pale Master I enhancement for example. Would it be:

1) enhancement first, then item - (base damage * 1.25) * 1.5
2) item first, then enhancement - (base damage * 1.5) * 1.25
3) item + enhancement - base damage * 1.75

[Visty]

(base*enhancements*item)*feats

thats the last ive read

[CaptGrim]

Items and enhancements are supposed to stack, But I think that PM is broken and is not applying the bonus at least at Tier 3.

look at necrotic ray in my case:

My PM 3

Necrotic ray 1d8/caster lvl max 25
45% neg damage from PM3
50% sup potency 6
100% maximize
50% empower

Polar ray 1d6/caster lvl max 25
40% elemental damage Enhance
50% sup glaciation 8
100% maximize
50% empower

Now my necrotic rays are hitting for about 1/3 less damage than my polar rays.

All my other buffs for necrotic ray are working, max,emp, and item.

The description for it used to be 1d8 per caster lvl max level 10, so I went to the PvP pit and had someone enervate me to level 10... nope damage for sure goes down not quite half.

I've submitted a bug report, but I suggest you test it for yourself and do your own tests, then please you submit a report also, I really would like this fixed. And for PM 3s necrotic ray SHOULD be awesome.

[tinyelvis]

(base*enhancements*item)*feats

thats the last ive read

This is incorrect or a typo. It should read for the quantities you are referring to,

damage = base * (enhancements +items) * feats

Items and enhancements are supposed to stack, But I think that PM is broken and is not applying the bonus at least at Tier 3.

look at necrotic ray in my case:

My PM 3

Necrotic ray 1d8/caster lvl max 25
45% neg damage from PM3
50% sup potency 6
100% maximize
50% empower

Polar ray 1d6/caster lvl max 25
40% elemental damage Enhance
50% sup glaciation 8
100% maximize
50% empower

Now my necrotic rays are hitting for about 1/3 less damage than my polar rays.

All my other buffs for necrotic ray are working, max,emp, and item.

The description for it used to be 1d8 per caster lvl max level 10, so I went to the PvP pit and had someone enervate me to level 10... nope damage for sure goes down not quite half.

I've submitted a bug report, but I suggest you test it for yourself and do your own tests, then please you submit a report also, I really would like this fixed. And for PM 3s necrotic ray SHOULD be awesome.

The spell seems to function as stated, look here,

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=248390

Which is odd, since the damage does not function in line with typical expected damage from a d8. Maximize, heighten and empower seem to work too. Are you sure you are not comparing clicky superior freeze to the necro enhanced spell? Your test is not very systematic. Lots of room for misinterpretation and error. The folks who play wizards always claim they are smarter than the rest of us. Why has one of your kind not systematically tested the enhancement buff? I suppose you can take the developers word that it functions. Personally, I check every offensive spell I use.

Edit: notice average base damage for necro is about 10% lower than Polar ray. Why don't you crank thru the math and see if this will lead to a larger ultimate damage with all of the buffs you use.

Here I'll do it

Necro Ray
base 90
Enh/Item 1.95 *90 = 176
Max/Emp = 2.5 * 176 = 439 < ----- is this what you see on average for a non - save at 20?

Polar Ray
base 100
1.90 *100 = 190
190*2.5 = 475

So, lower values is what I would expect to see for necro over polar ray.

[Syldra]

currently, the palemaster bonuses to negetive energy damage and crit do not work. at all.

they would stack with items if they were working, however.