Remember when fog spells slowed enemies down?

[iamsamoth0]

Sounds tasty, I'd like to test it.

[dormetheus]

Maybe it only appears that players are slowed down more than enemies because enemies move ~2x as fast as characters?

[Kza]

Can any dev plz log on on a normal server and cast a fog and verify that it slow down mobs 40%?
Cause if it works for you 40% slowdown my comp is bugged. I can in my imagination maybe think it slows alittle max 5-10% or so. So little it is no use at all.

It is bugged for me atleast, no 40% here.

[fuzzy1guy]

Agreed. It's kind of irrevelant if it works in testing or as reported by QA. Because it does NOT work on the live servers. Any slowing effect is near 0 on the monsters. And near 50% on players.

But theres no way its as high as 40%. No way no how. 5% tops... maybe..

Do the QA people play on their own copy of a server or something? It' seems like alot of whats reported as 'working'.
Does not match the reality we see on the live servers.



Race an average monster found at-level you get these spells down a hallway with and without filling it with fogs... On a live non-test non-private game server

Theres no possible way its 40% right now.

Edit: tested it myself. it does nothing. spells still 100% useless.

[rest]

My question is this: is this testing done on an internal server, or on the actual live game that we all play? Maybe there is some sort of disconnect if you're not on the actual honest-to-god servers? I don't know. It just seems that your testing doesn't jive with what everyone is reporting on the live servers.

Obviously we have to take your word for it; you've got access to the nuts and bolts of the game and we don't. I just wish I didn't feel like there is some huge disconnect between what the systems team sees and what the players see

The ONLY use I have for acid fog these days is the soloing the doomsphere in Litany of the Dead. And I haven't wanted to farm tome pages in quite a long while. So Acid Fog is totally unused by me.

[rest]

Agreed. It's kind of irrevelant if it works in testing or as reported by QA. Because it does NOT work on the live servers. Any slowing effect is near 0 on the monsters. And near 50% on players.

But theres no way its as high as 40%. No way no how. 5% tops... maybe..

Do the QA people play on their own copy of a server or something? It' seems like alot of whats reported as 'working'.
Does not match the reality we see on the live servers.



Race an average monster found at-level you get these spells down a hallway with and without filling it with fogs... On a live non-test non-private game server

Theres no possible way its 40% right now.

Gah I took too long typing my post up. You beat me by 5 minutes! +rep, even though you've disabled it.

[Lifespawn]

Yep tested it again as well neither spell works as the QA has told you it does at least not on the real live servers.


I also tested it in PVP in a deathmatch that is the only place it worked as you describe it does slow down what appears to be 40%.

So the spells effect us correctly but not the mobs while your at it please have them check if the fact that i can avoid all acid damage from acid fog simply by continuing to run through it is WAI as long as i don't stop the damage doesn't ever hit.


That needs to be fixed as well so that the damage happens as soon as you hit the fog not a time delay afterwards.

[marcosoneghett]

OK, I got the whole story now.

Yes, it was changed with Update 9. It used to apply an 80% slowdown to both players and mobs, but it was decided at that time that it was too close to a root.

It's currently at 40%. I just sat with the entire systems team and verified that it is indeed a 40% slowdown. Apart from it technically moving the mobs at 60% of their normal speed, it visually looks like they are moving at 60% of their non-slowed speed. This is the same for players and monsters (i.e. before Update 9 players affected by fog would have moved twice as slow as now).

So, our official stance on this is that it is 'working as intended' and not a bug. What *is* a bug (or at least wasn't intentional) is that the fog spells can stack.

We could certainly debate the merits of the change, how useful the fog spells generally are, etc, but that is a separate matter. I personally think that we need to a review pass on all spells as many of them just aren't useful (or worth the cost) and I'm hoping for us to do that in the near future.

Mad Floyd, why don't you guys consider:

# I mean, pair Sleet Storm; Firewall; Chain Lightning and Acid Rain (Not sure if all are of the same level, thus balancing questions would be up) so wizards of all specs could have a viable option for AOE damage;
# Take back up the Fog effects to 80% but DON'T allow then to STACK;
# Pair the HD affected by the POWER WORDS with the HD of the Monsters of the same level at hard at least, or change the mechanics to a viable save at HARD mode;
# Review the "personal combat" spells for wizards alike either fixing them or totally removing them (which i would not like, cause it would remove certain builds from the game, and removing builds is a way to empoverish a MMO)
# Review que buff personal stats spells, which at their current level, lose their usefullness (if they ever had one) at level 8;

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yes, this really needs to be fixed.

I realy don't like the fact that it just seems to be forgotten about, or that they just hope no one remembers that it is broken.




















(BTW: fix Greater Teleport too! Or am I the only one that remembers it is not working as originally advertised?)

[Talon_Moonshadow]

OK, I got the whole story now.

Yes, it was changed with Update 9. It used to apply an 80% slowdown to both players and mobs, but it was decided at that time that it was too close to a root.

It's currently at 40%. I just sat with the entire systems team and verified that it is indeed a 40% slowdown. Apart from it technically moving the mobs at 60% of their normal speed, it visually looks like they are moving at 60% of their non-slowed speed. This is the same for players and monsters (i.e. before Update 9 players affected by fog would have moved twice as slow as now).

So, our official stance on this is that it is 'working as intended' and not a bug. What *is* a bug (or at least wasn't intentional) is that the fog spells can stack.

We could certainly debate the merits of the change, how useful the fog spells generally are, etc, but that is a separate matter. I personally think that we need to a review pass on all spells as many of them just aren't useful (or worth the cost) and I'm hoping for us to do that in the near future.

A little difficult for me to understand, but it sure doesn't look to me like they are slowed much at all.


At any rate though, why is it not 50%? Which is what I thought the spell descriptions said? (going from memory)

[Kiranselie]

My question is this: is this testing done on an internal server, or on the actual live game that we all play? Maybe there is some sort of disconnect if you're not on the actual honest-to-god servers? I don't know. It just seems that your testing doesn't jive with what everyone is reporting on the live servers.

Obviously we have to take your word for it; you've got access to the nuts and bolts of the game and we don't. I just wish I didn't feel like there is some huge disconnect between what the systems team sees and what the players see

The ONLY use I have for acid fog these days is the soloing the doomsphere in Litany of the Dead. And I haven't wanted to farm tome pages in quite a long while. So Acid Fog is totally unused by me.

I know their internal build they test on doesnt mesh w/ what we see.

Back when the Amrath update was on Llama, I managed to get the rogue assassin set and tested it. Noticed the level Drain was proc'ing on purple nameds and started this thread.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194825

In the thread I was told that on their internal build, this was not the case.

Fast forward several months to Update 3 Patch 1 and look at the release notes

"The level drain effect of the assassin III item set bonus will no longer affect red-named or purple-named bosses."

That in and of itself lets me know that there is a Major disconnect between QA and the players, and that theres really no point of doing any testing, theyre never going to check it on live servers, just use their "perfect" internal build.

[Nyvn]

Could someone fraps and post the video of how the fog spells act for us. I seem to remember being told that the Devs never say any DPS lag in the shroud. Until they saw a video of what happened and then observed players actually playing on a live server they'd never seen DPS Lag.

[MrWizard]

i remember sleet storm and solid fog/acid fog, etc..all about the same 'slow' effect but without the trip and slide of sleet storm.

it was like a 50% effect and awesome...now they are not used as they are completely broken.....pretty much useless

ghasts and those female ghoul things ignored it going way back and now everything pretty much ignores it

[MrWizard]

OK, I got the whole story now.

Yes, it was changed with Update 9. It used to apply an 80% slowdown to both players and mobs, but it was decided at that time that it was too close to a root.

It's currently at 40%. I just sat with the entire systems team and verified that it is indeed a 40% slowdown. Apart from it technically moving the mobs at 60% of their normal speed, it visually looks like they are moving at 60% of their non-slowed speed. This is the same for players and monsters (i.e. before Update 9 players affected by fog would have moved twice as slow as now).

So, our official stance on this is that it is 'working as intended' and not a bug. What *is* a bug (or at least wasn't intentional) is that the fog spells can stack.

We could certainly debate the merits of the change, how useful the fog spells generally are, etc, but that is a separate matter. I personally think that we need to a review pass on all spells as many of them just aren't useful (or worth the cost) and I'm hoping for us to do that in the near future.

i have not played a caster in years, but i did notice two fogs stacked as noted earlier.

yea, that is a bit exploitable, but costly for sure...and probably useless, but still an odd effect

[smatt]

I respect you, MadFloyd - but I have to just say that what you are reporting just does not jibe with what I've seen. When a player goes into an enemy's fog, the slow-down is noticeable. When an enemy goes into a player cast cloud, there is no visible effect what so ever. None. They simply don't slow down a notch, let alone 40%. If there is any slow-down on a mob, then it's so subtle it's to the point of near non-existence.


But, I guess this means the case is closed as far as the Devs go - so I won't harp on it anymore. I'm just really disappointed that this is yet another instance of Dev/Player disconnect.

I have to agree with Memnir here... When enemies hit my fogs they run through it like nothing. They AREN'T slowed down at least visably... They catch me just as they would if there were no fog at all, the concealment bonus does apply when I'm in the fog. But the slow effect isn't there.. Are you guys testing on the LIVE server? A live emulated server? Sorry Madfloyd......... Something isn't right here..

And of course spellcasters as a whole need a pass.. As Eladrin has stated, it is in the planning stages... But I would like to add that the Devs REALLY need to pay attention to the descriptions on all spells and items, they need to update the descriptions to match the changes... We should be able to read a description an know what an item or spell does, or is SUPPOSSED to do. It certainly shouldn't take a year to figure out if something is working or not. The amount of work involved in insuring such a thing happens would be very small in comparision to the amount of work and player angst in bug reporting/WAI verification, and fixes in the future.
While seemingly minor it has always bothered me that the item/spell desciptions are so horrbible... I mean is it relaly THAT hard to get them right? Or at least right MOST of the time? A good number of them are really REALY REALLY bad. And if something gets a pass and changes you can almost always count on them being incorrect.

[Angelus_dead]

Yes, it was changed with Update 9. It used to apply an 80% slowdown to both players and mobs, but it was decided at that time that it was too close to a root.

Note that the game design could use an AOE root spell, which (on a failed save) prevents monsters from moving through an area, but allows them to continue to make attacks on things within reach (subject to penalties). The Web spell would've naturally done this, but for some reason it was buffed to also prevent taking actions. Another natural candidate would be Evard's Black Tentacles, although that would need some animating.

[fuzzy1guy]

I spent like half an hour running the vale rats up and down the bridge in front of meridia with fogs...

The rats have NO PROBLEM keeping up with me with or without fog. their movement rate doesnt change a bit.

And on acid fog... It wont kill them either... even maxxed out acid fog (minus enhancments) wont kill them. or even hurt them. 8-10 minutes of kiting them thru half a dozen 2 minute acid fogs and 1 out of the 4 rats had 80% health... The others were fine. They don't even 'slow' enough to take 1 tick of damage from an entire line of acid fogs...

Solid fog does nothing. Acid fog does almost nothing if you count the minor damage 1 rat took. (i dont)


I gotta say again... Whatever version of the game the devs and or QA team is playing on. Is nothing like what the live servers are using. And this isn't the first time such a disconnect is pretty obvious from the way turbine talks to us... You guys sure don't see what we see.


Edit:

A little more messing around with the actual 'slow' spell shows that a 25% movement rate change on the monster IS very visible and IS noticable. It does slow them down. Very much so.. It's obvious and far more than the supposed 40% change from a fog spell we're supposed to see. So whatever change you guys think you're making that is -40%. It's broken. Not working.

Altho even slow isn't correct anymore as per the screenshot... But the 25% rate that is applied is very noticable. at -25% they have trouble keeping up with my character speed. (and at -40% they don't.)

[Merlocke]

Fog spells are still busted I see.

With so many spells being made useless it just makes it easier to fit spells on my sorc.

[DagazUlf]

40% or 4.0%?

I think someone transposed a decimal and/or a zero someplace. Enemies are being slowed 4%, not 40%.

[MrWizard]

I have to repost this in the hopes it gets attention....

even when solid fog worked as intended with a good amount of slow many mobs
ignored it...and still probably do...

so those rats are probably unaffected like many mobs.