Raid Loot n Resources

[LawstCawz]

I figured the weekend would be a great time to post this topic since it'll be a while before it's locked. Post with rage and don't hold back!


Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources to a guild's raid if they're not allowed to roll on raid loot?


I'd say most definitely not. This issue is cropping up fairly often with all the newer, less experienced guilds trying to run epics, abbot, and tod. I feel if you needed my toon and resources, you obviously could not have done it otherwise. If you want to fill a piker spot out of the kindness of your heart, then just let the pugger pike.

[Visty]

if they say it beforhand that youre not allowed to roll, then you know the deal and depending on the numbers of guild members vs you, just dro pthe group

if they state it just as the raid is completed, then its time for the special list

[LawstCawz]

if they say it beforhand that youre not allowed to roll, then you know the deal and depending on the numbers of guild members vs you, just dro pthe group

if they state it just as the raid is completed, then its time for the special list

I think you misread. It's not about the raid loot policy. I have no problem of guild before puggers. I have a problem of expecting the puggers to carry you, then biting the hand that feeds.

[Visty]

well, if you dont run for loot, why raid at all?
and if its just for the fun, why the thread?

also even your question says its about raid loot

and thats exactly what i said:
if puggers arent allwoed to roll: drop and blacklist

[soloman]

I think you misread. It's not about the raid loot policy. I have no problem of guild before puggers. I have a problem of expecting the puggers to carry you, then biting the hand that feeds.

Word! If I contribute resources to a raid yet am not allowed to roll on the loot dropped, I will not be joining that guilds runs again.

Ifya dont want to open up the rolls to peeps who arent in your guild then dont expect them to offer anything but their toons participation in the run.

On another note. (in my opinion) Those who are dual boxing and leaving one toon afk through an entire run, should only be allowed to pull loot that nobody wants.

See this alot nowadays and have to say it irritates the hell out of me. Even the biggest n00b loser (most of them at least) is ATTEMPTING to contribute to the group.

[Quikster]

Word! If I contribute resources to a raid yet am not allowed to roll on the loot dropped, I will not be joining that guilds runs again.

Ifya dont want to open up the rolls to peeps who arent in your guild then dont expect them to offer anything but their toons participation in the run.

On another note. (in my opinion) Those who are dual boxing and leaving one toon afk through an entire run, should only be allowed to pull loot that nobody wants.

See this alot nowadays and have to say it irritates the hell out of me. Even the biggest n00b loser (most of them at least) is ATTEMPTING to contribute to the group.

I've two boxed raids for a long time, though mostly on guild runs. Most of the time the piker loot goes up for roll, though if I want it I roll as well (roll once).

I run titan a lot with 2 guildies and we all two box. Usually in this case we keep any loot we want that we pull piker loot or not. This is mostly because its the three of us and we have done it a bunch of times together.

@OP. Yes if your expected to contribute to costs, you should be allowed a loot roll.

[sirgog]

If PUGs aren't allowed to roll on loot, join the group, then cast well-timed Dispels followed by Grease on a VON bridge or in epic DQ2, or D-Door on the chest in VoD/Reaver/etc, or Disintegrate on Pillars.

I don't begrudge guilds passing an item someone's seriously chasing to a guildy (especially if they say up-front 'we are here to get ****** their Chattering Ring), but doing it on all items is dirty.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You people sure do have a lot of screwed up raids.

[Clay]

On another note. (in my opinion) Those who are dual boxing and leaving one toon afk through an entire run, should only be allowed to pull loot that nobody wants.

What if one can run two characters at once and can play them both better than half the puggers play one?


This whole argument is silly. Even if your role was crucial... you are NOT entitled to loot that did not drop in your name.

Some of the comments are indicating that all loot should be up for general roll... what a crock.. I like how you look at just a little part of the picture. The situation is not as black and white as people like Gkar are trying to make it out to be. There is no absolute "Puggers CAN'T roll." It is that if an item drops in my name, that a guildie wants/called then no, you can't have it, nor roll on it. If I don't want it, no one in my guild wants it, then you can have/roll on it. How is that any different that Person A wanting and looting, or passing to his friend Person B, or selling it to Person C. It is his loot. My loot is my loot. With regards to resources: did you have an opportunity to open the warded chest? If the answer is "yes" you should contribute.

It's funny how you are trying to make the guilded look grasping, but... you are the ones demanding an opportunity to roll on my loot.

Hey Gkar, can I borrow a million plat? You'd help a guildie, right? No distinctions, right? So random strangers in a raid ar just like guildies, right? After all, you wouldn't want to treat anyone differently, right?

[Pyromaniac]

I always try to ensure healers have resources covered, but there will always be those who are cheap.

[Vhlad]

Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources to a guild's raid if they're not allowed to roll on raid loot?

Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if no loot is pulled?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if loot is pulled but kept by those who pull it?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if loot is pulled but only up for roll to a class different than the puggers class?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they get banished at the end of part 3?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they **** up in some way that increases resource use, even if raid loot is kept in guild?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they pull loot themselves but are not given the chance to roll on loot that someone else pulled?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if the raid wipes?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if the server or raid instance crashes/bugs?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if someone trades/sells/has an open auction for raid loot that they pull?

Where do you draw the line?

IMO if you join a raid you should be willing to contribute as best you can in both resource use and character performance. You are paying for a possible completion and your 1/6 chance. You have no right to other peoples 1/6 chance.

EDIT
There is also a very important distinction to make:
puggers can keep whatever loot they pull
people in guilds that have an in-guild priority policy for loot often cannot: if they do not call the item they must put it for guild roll, even if they want to loot the item themselves.

example: I'm doing TOD with 8 guildies and none of us call ravager ring. I'm on my barb, I pull ravager ring, and I don't have it yet. I want it, and 2 other guildy barbs want it too. Since none of us called it, it goes up for guild roll. Whereas if I was a pugger I'd be able to loot it. If one of the puggers wants the ring and rolls with us, should he be freed from covering any resource use if his roll is ignored? (again, this is for a ring that I pulled, that I want for myself, but that I cannot loot straight away due to guild policy).

[petegunn]

Stand by stand by! ressing Lost

On another note "take from them everything but! give them nothing" King Leonitus.

[Mirta]

Stand by stand by! ressing Lost

On another note "take from them everything but! give them nothing" King Leonitus.

Pimpin' ain't easy.

[Ssmooth]

Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if no loot is pulled?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if loot is pulled but kept by those who pull it?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if loot is pulled but only up for roll to a class different than the puggers class?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they get banished at the end of part 3?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they **** up in some way that increases resource use, even if raid loot is kept in guild?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they pull loot themselves but are not given the chance to roll on loot that someone else pulled?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if the raid wipes?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if the server or raid instance crashes/bugs?

Where do you draw the line?

IMO if you join a raid you should be willing to contribute as best you can in both resource use and character performance. You are paying for a possible completion and your 1/6 chance. You have no right to other peoples 1/6 chance.

IMO, I have no problem spending the resourses as you can see in my post. I also like to think that I do my part efficiently and competently. My only issue is not getting paid back when grouping with certain guilds if something happens that causes a lot of resourses to be used to complete the quest/raid. It's not everyone in these guilds by any means, and they are guilds that I pug with quite frequently. There are some however who will not reimburse a pugger who used 15 major pots healing an epic raid that went poorly, weather do to lag, poor plan, poor execution, etc.

Your loot is your loot. I really don't care about guild loot policies of other guilds and such and completely understand/agree with whatever they are for each guild. I generally rely on my pulls anyhow and rarely expect to get to roll on raid loot. I usually just count it a bonus if I get the chance to roll

[Vhlad]

Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if no loot is pulled?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if loot is pulled but kept by those who pull it?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if loot is pulled but only up for roll to a class different than the puggers class?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they get banished at the end of part 3?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they **** up in some way that increases resource use, even if raid loot is kept in guild?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if they pull loot themselves but are not given the chance to roll on loot that someone else pulled?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if the raid wipes?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if the server or raid instance crashes/bugs?
Is a pugger responsible for contributing resources if someone trades/sells/has an open auction for raid loot that they pull?

Where do you draw the line?

IMO if you join a raid you should be willing to contribute as best you can in both resource use and character performance. You are paying for a possible completion and your 1/6 chance. You have no right to other peoples 1/6 chance.

EDIT
There is also a very important distinction to make:
puggers can keep whatever loot they pull
people in guilds that have an in-guild priority policy for loot often cannot: if they do not call the item they must put it for guild roll, even if they want to loot the item themselves.

example: I'm doing TOD with 8 guildies and none of us call ravager ring. I'm on my barb, I pull ravager ring, and I don't have it yet. I want it, and 2 other guildy barbs want it too. Since none of us called it, it goes up for guild roll. Whereas if I was a pugger I'd be able to loot it. If one of the puggers wants the ring and rolls with us, should he be freed from covering any resource use if his roll is ignored? (again, this is for a ring that I pulled, that I want for myself, but that I cannot loot straight away due to guild policy).

While I say this now, I haven't logged on in many weeks.

Have nub guilds hit end-game, and are they putting underpowered raids together and blowing through resources, and expecting everyone to pay while keeping all loot in-guild?

My position is from the standpoint that experienced guilds with good composition and contribution are leading these raids. However, if I joined a group of total gimps who are ill-equipped & ill-prepared and they're supplementing their lack of gear/skill via ddostore mana pots or plat farmer mana pots, I wouldn't be too keen on covering them.

For experienced guilds, puggers are getting a fast run with a good shot at completion, their 1/6 chance, and unneeded loot pulled by the well-equipped guild members. This to me is worth the cost of covering an equal share of the minor resources used to complete an epic velah, epic DQ, hard/elite TOD, etc.

For nub guilds, puggers are getting a slow run with a poor shot at completion (or a good shot at an expensive completion), their 1/6 chance, and are a lot less likely to see any loot go unneeded, as it is pulled by poorly equipped nubs.

On one hand, nubs that struggle with content need their resource use covered more than experienced guilds. On the other hand, they're nubs. What do you lose if you **** them off - become blacklisted by nub groups? Isn't that a good thing?

It would be unlikely to happen to me though. If I see a pug led by players or guilds I dont know, I either don't join or myddo everyone before joining. If I got in a nub group where resource use was high, I would contribute, even if they kept all loot. I would, however, be sure to avoid their raids in the future. In fact, even if they shared loot I would avoid their raids, because nub groups just aren't fun (well, actually, nub groups can be entertaining. but they aren't fun if the goal is speed/efficiency).

1 caveat: if the grind in DDO was reduced I'd be a lot nicer to new players. The game would be less about increasing the efficiency of running shroud for the 1500th time.

[LawstCawz]

Have nub guilds hit end-game, and are they putting underpowered raids together and blowing through resources, and expecting everyone to pay while keeping all loot in-guild?

My position is from the standpoint that experienced guilds with good composition and contribution are leading these raids. However, if I joined a group of total gimps who are ill-equipped & ill-prepared and they're supplementing their lack of gear/skill via ddostore mana pots or plat farmer mana pots, I wouldn't be too keen on covering them.

This is where I'm coming from.

[Nezichiend]

If you l00t is your l00t....


Your pots are your own pots

[nanobot1994]

Just a quick question about loot:

Why is it a problem if xxx loots yyy and decides to pass it on to his guildmates? Its xxx's loot not yours, you had your chance to have it drop for you in the chest, you failed s/he succeed. I see the problem if you get a rare piece of raid-loot and you get forced to put it up for roll, but im my opinion its there loot, not yours.

Id much rather run with a nice guild who lets me keep my loot, and lets the guild members roll for the guilds loot, since 1) its most likely a much more relaxed (they know what theyre doing), easier, faster and just generally a funner run than a random pug. In a pug, you might get to roll for all loot, but its just not worth the stress of wondering how soon youll wipe or how much resources youll have to go through every mob.

So my question in a nut shell is, why do you think your entitled to someone else's loot, they probably spent just as much resources as you, or maybe they were just flat-out luckier.

[GlorkTheInvader]

A lot of people seem to be failing to address the question directly. The question posed by the OP is not the ten thousandth re-hash of "what should guilds do about opening raid loot?" It states (to paraphrase), "If a pugger joins a Guild raid, and loot opened by that Guild stays within that guild, should the pugger be expected to compensate for any resources spent during the raid?"

The answer (in my humble opinion) is yes. Regardless of loot pulled, all twelve players are expected to do their part to help the raid succeed. This is not just limited to executing your role properly, but it also includes covering spent resources. That is part of the unwritten agreement you make when you join ANY raid, guild-based or not.


But ultimately, it is the raid leader's / guild's choice whether you get your completion and your chance to pop loot. To the OP, I would say: If you have a problem with this, don't join any guild raids. Stick to 100% pugs, and see how happy you are with your success rates and resources spent in a few weeks.

[Waukeen]

Have nub guilds hit end-game, and are they putting underpowered raids together and blowing through resources, and expecting everyone to pay while keeping all loot in-guild?

My position is from the standpoint that experienced guilds with good composition and contribution are leading these raids. However, if I joined a group of total gimps who are ill-equipped & ill-prepared and they're supplementing their lack of gear/skill via ddostore mana pots or plat farmer mana pots, I wouldn't be too keen on covering them.

For experienced guilds, puggers are getting a fast run with a good shot at completion, their 1/6 chance, and unneeded loot pulled by the well-equipped guild members. This to me is worth the cost of covering an equal share of the minor resources used to complete an epic velah, epic DQ, hard/elite TOD, etc.

For nub guilds, puggers are getting a slow run with a poor shot at completion (or a good shot at an expensive completion), their 1/6 chance, and are a lot less likely to see any loot go unneeded, as it is pulled by poorly equipped nubs.

This is a very good assessment of the situation that a true Pugger like me deals with every time I log in and raid.

Personally, I would much much rather fill out a run with a guild that has a loot policy than join one of the ridiculous ****show runs that I try to avoid.

I still get mine, I know what to expect, and I know the other players will able to do their part.

I pitch in whenever asked and I offer to if I see pots being used. You reap what you sow, and gimme gimme never gets.