Healing spells, Potency, Empowered Healing, etc calculations

[Rumbaar]

I'm trying to work out how enhancements to various healing spells work and am having troubles.

Using Heal as an example

L14 FvS WF heals for a base of +127

I equip a Superior Potency VI [+50% spells] item and I get +172 [increase of 45]

I take that off and enable Empower Heal [+50% more effective] and get +191 [increase of 64]

For those that know, how come +50% from one source is calculated differently or how do I get different outcome?

Secondary question

With cure spells does Devotion +50% work the same as Potency +50%? With Maximize enabled does it cost more all the time but only do +50% more when doing damage to a target and not healing?

[Matuse]

I equip a Superior Potency VI [+50% spells] item and I get +172 [increase of 45]

I take that off and enable Empower Heal [+50% more effective] and get +191 [increase of 64]

For those that know, how come +50% from one source is calculated differently or how do I get different outcome?

I believe in this case the Potency item is improving your base heal, where Empower Heal is getting to it after your Life Magic enhancements have boosted it.

With cure spells does Devotion +50% work the same as Potency +50%?

Yes. If you have an equal level (and magnitude) Potency, then Devotion is pointless.

With Maximize enabled does it cost more all the time but only do +50% more when doing damage to a target and not healing?

Maximize works on cure spells, so the extra spellpoints will be used...since you will be healing for more. Maximize does not interact with Heal or Mass Heal at all. It will also do extra damage to undead (I like running through the middle of a group fighting undead and casting a mass cure...heals all my guys, and hurts all of theirs).

[Rumbaar]

Ah thank you for the answers. That explains why there are different values, and I do have various heal enhancements [30% or 40%]

I guess I can put something better in my off hand then. I wonder why anyone would ever take Devotion then, strange.

Oh mass works like that, I always thought if you didn't target an enemy it wouldn't hurt them. I'll have to experiment with that one in group settings.

[SapoDoode]

Oh mass works like that, I always thought if you didn't target an enemy it wouldn't hurt them. I'll have to experiment with that one in group settings.

Nope it will still hurt them.

[Nyvn]

I guess I can put something better in my off hand then. I wonder why anyone would ever take Devotion then, strange.

Equivalent Devotion is a lower minimum level.

[sirgog]

Here's how healing enhancements stack:

1) Your best item and best enhancement stack additively. Example: Life Magic 4 (40%) and Greater Devotion 6 (40%) add to an 80% boost.

2) Your metamagic feats stack additively. Example: Empower Spell, Maximize Spell and Empower Healing give 50%, 100% and 50% respectively - total of a 200% boost. (For Heal and Mass Heal, only Empower Spell works, and I know very few FvS's have Empower and Empower Healing).

3) These two factors stack multiplicatively. So in this case, +80% means x1.8, and +200% means x3.0, so a total of 1.8x3.0 = 5.4 times the healing output.

4) This factor stacks multiplicatively with every source of Healing Amplification the target has, except the item named Finger Necklace (this stacks in strange ways, and is probably bugged). If the target is a Warforged with Healers Friend 2 (x0.7), and a 10% and a 20% boost to Healing Amp on their DT docent (x1.1 and x1.2), then this factor is 0.7x1.1x1.2=0.924, multiplied by 5.4 (from part 4) for a grand total of x4.9896.

5) Finally, this stacks multiplicatively with any critical heal that may be rolled up.

[Rumbaar]

Thank you for that additional technical answer sirgog.

So in my example the Superior Potency + Life Magic 4 gave me 50%+40%=90% and Empower Heal + Life Magic 4 gave me 50%X40%=110%

Thus the difference in totals.

[DaoJones]

For Heal and Mass Heal, only Empower Spell works, and I know very few FvS's have Empower and Empower Healing).

I thought it was the other way around? Empower Healing boosts Heal/Mass Heal, but Empower Spell does not.

[unbongwah]

Empower Healing boosts Heal/Mass Heal, but Empower Spell does not.

Correct; that and the lower SP cost are the main reasons for taking Emp Heal instead of or in addition to Emp on a healer. Also, I'm not sure if Emp & Emp Heal stack on Cure spells like sirgog claims. I didn't think they did, but I'll let someone who knows better weigh in.

[Delar303]

..

[Khellendros13]

Correct; that and the lower SP cost are the main reasons for taking Emp Heal instead of or in addition to Emp on a healer. Also, I'm not sure if Emp & Emp Heal stack on Cure spells like sirgog claims. I didn't think they did, but I'll let someone who knows better weigh in.

For CURE spells and the FvS capstone "Healing Word", Empower, Empower Heal and Maximize all stack.
For HEAL spells (Mass Heal, Heal) Empower Healing works.

I normally leave all 3 on along with quicken and don't have any SP issues. Empower healing and maximise if I wont be using any BB's.

[Danmor]

I started a related thread a while back, it's here.

The best answer is from DDO talk crunchy bits, it can be found here