Undying Court neccessary?

[Wuliev]

yeah i'm kinda going for a dps build, as i am a twf elf. here are my stats right now (only lvl 3)

STR 16
DEX 16 (+1 from racial enhance)
CON 12
WIS 10
CHA 14(+1 from class enhance)

so with all of the enhancements that buff stats i'll get a cha of 16 and dex of 17.
the dex will get me all of the twf feats i plan on getting, and a little better ac and throwing weapon dmg (if that ever comes into play)
i don't plan on casting almost at all.
But with the divine might 4 enhancement that requires a base stat of CHA 20, i think i should buff my cha with my level stat buffs so i can qualify for this, and doesn't it enhance like most of the other paladin damage buffs?

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Enhancements and Items don't count towards feat Pre-reqs.
You'll need at least a +1 Tome with that Dex score.

[sephiroth1084]

it Does stack? Nice, then that makes undying courts better for pure paladins for their tier 3 prestige enhancements. Thanks for the input guys.

Somewhat unrelated: for a DPS build, is getting the divine sacrifice enhancement line worth getting? should i get the extra smite evil enhancements?

This question made me chuckle a bit. The only reason you take smite evil enhancements in the first place is so you can qualify for divine sacrifice. Smite Evil seems really impressive, but you only get one every two minutes (you can burn them in quick succession, though). In contrast, you can Divine Sacrifice every 4 (?) seconds so it contributes a ton more damage than Smite Evil ever could.

Actually, you take Extra Smite for both Divine Sacrifice and Exalted Smite. And yes, they are absolutely worth taking.

As a DPS paladin, your bread and butter enhancement-wise are (not in order):
-Divine Might (you should be able to get at least rank 3, if not 4, with an appropriate tome-- a MUST HAVE)
-Divine Sacrifice (at least rank 2)
-Exalted Smite (at least rank 2)
-Capstone (extremely useful not just as DPS from the damage, but also in opening up all sorts of weapon possibilities for DR monsters)
-KotC (amazing if fighting evil outsides and undead--currently affects undead--but useless otherwise...good thing almost our entire endgame is EO and Undead based)

[Wuliev]

soo how do i make this effective?

BASE stats:

STR 16
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 13

these are my calculations for enhancements, feats and stat buffs from leveling.

enhancements:
core:
Pal extra smites- 10
pal exalted smites-10
pal divine sac-10
pal divine might- 6
kotc prestige-8
pal weaps of good- 2
undying courts- 6

then the rest are for stats and extra lay on hands.
pal cha bonus- 12 <<<<<<<<<< reading is tech
pal xtra lay on hands-6
pal toughness- 3
elf toughness- 3
elf valenar dmg-2
elf valenar atk-2

stat buffs from levels:
2 to CHA
2 to DEX
1 to CON

feats: (from what i hear is good...)
1 TWF
3 toughness
6 extend spell (what is this used for? can it be used on buffs?)
9 improved twf
12 improved crit slashing weaps
15 greater TWF
18 power attack


so for divine might, can i use the paladin charisma bonuses to qualify for its 18 base cha stat? if not then i'll probably have to scratch the divine might 3, that stat buff for con, and put it into valenar damage enhancements...

[unbongwah]

28-pt TWF elf paladin? I'd go with base stats 16 / 16 / 12 / 8 / 8 / 14 with all lvl-ups into STR. Need +1 DEX tome for ITWF & GTWF. Can't get anything higher than Divine Might I without a CHA tome; and you'll need a +6 WIS item (or +2 tome + 4 item) to cast lvl 4 spells. Feats in order: Toughness, TWF, ITWF, Imp Crit Slash, GTWF, PA, Extend.

[sephiroth1084]

You need more Cha for Divine Might. I'd consider dropping Str to a 14 maybe and putting all level-up points there in order to get a higher starting Cha. Yes, you'd be losing +1 attack, and about +0.8 damage (+1 main-hand for 4 attacks, +0.5 off-hand for 3 attacks). but would be gaining +2 damage most of the time.

And really, unless you're tied to the elf idea, drow would offer much better stats:
28 pt. elf
Str 14 (6)
Dex 15 (5) -- needs +2 tome for I/GTWF
Con 12 (6)
Int 8
Wis 8 (anything more is a waste of points)
Cha 16 (10) -- DM III with a +2 tome; DM IV with a +4 tome or a +3 and your final ability raise at level 20
[1 point left over -- can go into Dex, or to a lesser degree Int or Wis for +1 skill point per level with a +1 tome from lvl 3 onward, or slightly easier time getting your spells]

drow
Str 16 (10)
Dex 15 (5)
Con 12 (6)
Int 10 (0)
Wis 8
Cha 16 (6) -- DM III with a +2 tome; DM IV with a +4 tome or a +3 and your final ability raise at level 20
[1 point left over -- can go into Dex, or to a lesser degree Int or Wis for +1 skill point per level with a +1 tome from lvl 3 onward, or slightly easier time getting your spells]

soo how do i make this effective?

BASE stats:

STR 16
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 13

these are my calculations for enhancements, feats and stat buffs from leveling.

enhancements:
core:
Pal extra smites- 10
pal exalted smites-10
pal divine sac-10 Only 3 ranks of this (did you even bother using the planner?) so 6 AP total
pal divine might- 6 Can't hit rank 3 with just a tome currently.
kotc prestige-8
pal weaps of good- 2
undying courts- 6 Not bad, but also not incredible.

then the rest are for stats and extra lay on hands.
pal cha bonus- 12 <<<<<<<<<< reading is tech Absolutely not worth the investment. Buy the first rank if you are at an odd Cha, or buy the second rank only if you somehow inexplicably have excess AP. Rank III is absolutely not worth buying, and II is hardly worth it.
pal xtra lay on hands-6
pal toughness- 3
elf toughness- 3
elf valenar dmg-2
elf valenar atk-2

stat buffs from levels:
2 to CHA Spending more than one level point here is something of a waste.
2 to DEX If you can't rely on +2 tomes, start with a 16 Dex and find a +1 tome; spending level points here is a complete waste.
1 to CON Spending level points here is a complete waste.

Your level points would be much better spent on Str, which determines both your attack bonus and your damage: much more important than just about anything else.
feats: (from what i hear is good...)
1 TWF
3 toughness
6 extend spell (what is this used for? can it be used on buffs?) That's the only think it is used for, and can be dropped if there is something more important, as it is more a luxury item than anything else.
9 improved twf
12 improved crit slashing weaps
15 greater TWF
18 power attack


so for divine might, can i use the paladin charisma bonuses to qualify for its 18 base cha stat? if not then i'll probably have to scratch the divine might 3, that stat buff for con, and put it into valenar damage enhancements...

Only you base (starting) Cha + tomes can qualify you for Divine Might whatever. Items, enhancements and feats will not aid in qualifying. With a starting 13, you would need a +1 tome or level point just to qualify for DM I, and a +3 tome, or +2 tome and +1 level point for DM II.

[Wuliev]

So using the stats i have now, with a completely f2p account, what can be acheived and what is absolutely needed?
level buffs-
2 STR
2 DEX
1 CHA

would make it so i can get divine might 1
the 2 dex would give me the twf feats
and the str because it is everso important

then the enhancements i would be dropping:
divine sacrifice 4- 4points
all paladin cha bonuses- 12 points
divine might 2 and 3- 3 points

these could go into toughness and valenar damage enhancements
also i can easily get items that buff the strength stat for the bigger modifier

meh, idk man, i think i may hold off on paladin until i can afford drow and some supreme ability tomes

[honkuimushi]

Not to be to critical, but what made you decide on this build? The pure TWF Paladin is usually considered one of the most stat, AP and gear(especially tomes) intensive builds in DDO. For most 28 point builds, especially F2P ones, THF Paladins are usually recommended. Even going with a Paladin 18 / Rogue 2 or Monk 2 would probably be easier for a F2P player.

But for a TWF Paladin, not using tomes will cost you a lot of Str points, and that can make hitting with Power Attack on a an issue, which will really decrease your DPS. THF Paladins can dump dex and just go for Str, making tomes a luxury(though a +2 Chr tome is usually a good idea.) And a solid THF build will do more damage than a so-so TWF build, even with the advantages Paladins get from TWF. If you skip the tomes on a TWF build, you'll pretty much locking yourself into needing a Greater or True Reincarnation at later levels.

Tomes are available as loot in game. You'll get 1 +2 of your choice as a reward for reaching 1750 favor and they also drop in higher level quests and as raid loot. I would recommend concentration on a less demanding build and come back to this one once you've unlocked 32 pt. builds and accumulated dom cash and gear.