DPS lag. What is it?

[Krag]

I have heard people talking that the the more damage a group deals the more severe lag they get. From my own experience good groups indeed cause more lag than bad pugs.

However I suspect the lag is caused by calculations, not the amount of damage.
Example 1. Barbarian with ESoS. Extreme strength, extreme damage.
Example 2. Monk with Icy Burst Shocking Burst Greater Bane Handwraps, Holy Burst enchanted ToD rings, Tharne's Goggles, Epic Red Dragon Robe, stances, high attack speed, etc.

The monk from second example does not necessary add more to the DPS but his actions require more calculations.

Of course I have no hard data to prove the point only speculations. Would be nice to know if there is some truth in my suspicions.

[Rice]

Calculations are either done clientside or serverside (probably clientside). It should causes no lag at all, since it's just simple arithmetic. It's the massive FLOW of traffic between the server and clients that causes the lag. DDO has some really ancient or inefficient networking code that lags the instance whenever high amounts of combat data is being passed back and forth.

Try casting master's touch sometimes on a character, as you lag your computer from the "you gain x proficiency" x 10 messages in your log. Then watch it expire and have the same thing happen again. It's the same story, different setting.

DDO needs to upgrade its network code or change it combat log code to be more efficient.

[Belwaar]

A well equipped lvl 20 barbarian with frenzy, death frenzy criting with either an eSoS, Min II GA, etc. will produce a ton of calculations, and usually will have two lines of feedback per attack, so I completely understand your points.

Also take into account usually 2-3 healers spamming mass heals every 2 seconds as another reason for dps lag...probably a combination of both.

[Bracosius]

So your point is that it is possible to do lower dps and still produce lag?

You clearly know that the calculations are the cause and not the fact that a triple digit crit occured. Why start a thread to nit-pick the term "DPS lag"?

[Angelus_dead]

DDO needs to upgrade its network code or change it combat log code to be more efficient.

Yes, the problem is not that the task inherently requires a lot of work from either the server, client, or network, but that the software is simply being really inefficient about it.

[Angelus_dead]

You clearly know that the calculations are the cause and not the fact that a triple digit crit occured. Why start a thread to nit-pick the term "DPS lag"?

Probably the reason is to emphasize that so-called "DPS lag" effects different players differently. If group 1 is ESOS Barbs while group 2 is LS Tempest, group 2 will get a lot more lag even if they have the same DPS.

[Drfirewater79]

Yes, the problem is not that the task inherently requires a lot of work from either the server, client, or network, but that the software is simply being really inefficient about it.

yeah i agree ... you figure the real issue wouldnt be that the calculations have to be made but that they are being scrolled up and down the screen all over across the board so the more people doing more damage on the same screen with in the same mission sending that information back and forth along the client and server and network at the same time causes a brief delay ... multiply by 6 we don't notice as much but multiply by 12 and add mass healing numbers and what not on top of it and BOOM lag-o-ramma

[Gercho]

Probably the reason is to emphasize that so-called "DPS lag" effects different players differently. If group 1 is ESOS Barbs while group 2 is LS Tempest, group 2 will get a lot more lag even if they have the same DPS.

I think thats the real reason why they did eSOS so powerfull, so people will switch from twf to thf and reduce lag :P

[Drfirewater79]

personally ... i hope they have a fix in store for it but everytime someone brings it up ... turbine shells up and says nothing .. acting as expected really.

[Cyr]

Yes, the problem is not that the task inherently requires a lot of work from either the server, client, or network, but that the software is simply being really inefficient about it.

No doubt about that. It's the main reason I rail on DA so much, because I have to assume that the code for pathing is just as innefficient and attacking the root cause of the issue is the proper course of action.

Edit: There is also the serious issue of what appears to be a memory leak occuring in the game when switching characters. Another thread discussed this, but I certainly see the effects on my PC everytime I have switched 3+ times during a session and enter the desert or necropolis.

[Phidius]

No doubt about that. It's the main reason I rail on DA so much, because I have to assume that the code for pathing is just as innefficient and attacking the root cause of the issue is the proper course of action.

Edit: There is also the serious issue of what appears to be a memory leak occuring in the game when switching characters. Another thread discussed this, but I certainly see the effects on my PC everytime I have switched 3+ times during a session and enter the desert or necropolis.

It sounds like we need a new system called "Logging Alert" (or LA for short). Basically, every time you switch characters it increments the LA system from None -> Green -> Yellow -> Red.

At each progression in the system, you will gain a negative level and lose one equipped item at random (permanently).

To bring the LA system back to normal, simply delete one of your alternates of 10 levels or more.

Don't bother complaining about it - it's here to stay. Our numbers show a marked decrease in the amount of character switching, so it will stay with DDO forever.

You're welcome.

[Rumbaar]

There is no DPS LAG, Dungeon Alert fixed all those problems. The issues is with your computer.

[hydra_ex]

Yes, the problem is not that the task inherently requires a lot of work from either the server, client, or network, but that the software is simply being really inefficient about it.

Probably the reason is to emphasize that so-called "DPS lag" effects different players differently. If group 1 is ESOS Barbs while group 2 is LS Tempest, group 2 will get a lot more lag even if they have the same DPS.

This.

Just to expand a bit, a better connection can also help. However, you can't be expected to subscribe to a cutting edge Satellite-Laser* billion dollar connection thing when its the software/engine or some piece of code down the line which is being inefficient. Perhaps if more was done client side... But alas, I can't give real advice as I don't know what their code is.

Also, if you haven't noticed, this is why Sulomades teleports in VoD, and the judge and jailer blow you away, and epic Velah breathes fire: its to force a DPS pause, thus "fixing" DPS lag.

*Do these exist? It would be awesome if they did.

[Phidius]

...
*Do these exist? It would be awesome if they did.

You can drive a Lamborghini Diablo to the MVD, but you're still gonna wait in line...

[hydra_ex]

You can drive a Lamborghini Diablo to the MVD, but you're still gonna wait in line...

Create your own ISP? Then you're not that limited (although I suppose the backbone limits you... unless you get a special hook-up between your computer and the DDO servers!)

[Angelus_dead]

Also, if you haven't noticed, this is why Sulomades teleports in VoD, and the judge and jailer blow you away, and epic Velah breathes fire: its to force a DPS pause, thus "fixing" DPS lag.

It is improbable that system overload was a concern in the design of those encounter features. Obviously the reason for those effects was to make the combat more involving, and not just 3-5 minutes of standing in place.

[KingOfCheese]

What is lag?

It's like asking: what is love?

It's an amorphous concept that is part spiritual, part science. We will never entirely know what lag is or how it works--but we know it when we see it.

And we can sing its praises.

What is lag?
Baby don't hurt me
Don't hurt me no more

[Phidius]

What is lag?

It's like asking: what is love?

It's an amorphous concept that is part spiritual, part science. We will never entirely know what lag is or how it works--but we know it when we see it.
...

and it will totally f*** you up.

[hydra_ex]

It is improbable that system overload was a concern in the design of those encounter features. Obviously the reason for those effects was to make the combat more involving, and not just 3-5 minutes of standing in place.

I don't believe that the devs are that unilateral. I remember a time when Sulomades didn't teleport (I think). It was a retroactive change, and those aren't usually done unless there is a technical flaw. Either way, I think that devs had one in mind, and are conscious of the other benefit, regardless of which one of us is right as to their primary objective. To argue it really much further is a moot point, because we can't know what they're thinking regardless how much we may bicker.

[Eladiun]

Calculations are either done clientside or serverside (probably clientside). It should causes no lag at all, since it's just simple arithmetic. It's the massive FLOW of traffic between the server and clients that causes the lag. DDO has some really ancient or inefficient networking code that lags the instance whenever high amounts of combat data is being passed back and forth.

Without actually seeing the code I can't say you right but this makes scene. Damage calculations are ridiculously simple arithmetic and high end Quad Core processors are around 150k MIPS (Million Instruction per a Second) so I can't buy server side calculation lag because of all the uber damage but messaging traffic or log handling issues sound more plausible. Also it's a pretty easy fix to add a few blades into the cluster; hardware is silly cheap these days much cheaper than good programmers. Now if calculations are client side you could also run into the one bad apple spoils the bunch scenario where one or two of the twelve with bad machines drag the rest down...I seen some DXdiags posted here that make me want to cry. I could speculate on different scenarios all day and be totally off base but it is interesting that it seems to be at it's worst for people in boss battles in 12 man raids.