Feats for Epic

[maddmatt70]

Currently I have a level 19 cleric/1 monk, who is one of my favorite characters. She is caster oriented with a 42 wisdom when in water stance. She often casts heightened spells such as greater command, soundburst, symbol of stunning and persuasion and sometimes casts cometfall or holy smite. I have maximize, empower, empower healing, toughness, heighten, extend, quicken, and spell penetration. I so rarely use the blade barrior spell that I am thinking about dropping both maximize and empower which is what those feats are primarily for and picking up spell focus and greater spell focus of either enchantment (greater command and the two symbol spells) or evocation (soundburst). On epic having a super high dc on my cc seems far more beneficial then the occasional blade barrior.

Also which school would you choose? I can already hit the drow and drow scorpions in offering of blood and von3 with a fairly good soundburst for instance but the greater command is great in von1 just as symbol persuasion is great in dq1..

[moops]

Do you solo at all, even if it's just farming for scrolls? If you do you'd prob want to keep at least maximize. . .One can still do good damage with just maximize if need be.

Both my Main Pure healers have their Feats in Evocation now, I prefer Soundburst to GC when I can get it to land. I put Epic SPirit Site goggles on both as well, which as you know will also stack with your enchantment feats should you go that route--quite powerful even on my FVS whom only has a 36 Wis atm, and one less Spell Pen feat then my cleric, and no enchantment feats.

It has always seemed to me that enchantment spells are the easiest to land--but I don't know that I personally woulld take Evocation feats just for one spell, for me since I still solo and BB< it works out nice..

But you prob have a ton of Turbine points and can experiment to see which you like best--or change it when the new EPic comes out, I think that soundburst in EPic GH will rock, its the main spell I use for CC when I run it at level..

My Cleric does not carry extend, and she really doesn't miss it except maybe in TOD where she needs to pass out recitation to a main tank some times. I dont know if you have extend, but the only reason Ive ever had extend was for BB--my FVS still has it, but will prob drop it for the other spell pen feat as her BBs last longer than the mobs atm--except on Bosses and when kiting in DQ, so maybe dropping extend is an option as well.

[Quikster]

Good question and I think only one you can answer.

For me I would decide the following:

Which epics I run more...
combined with
Which epics I feel I need to land these spells in to be effective.

For me personally I prolly wouldn't worry much about von 1 as its pretty much a joke. Atdq and oob however can go south a lot quicker with the higher difficulty of mobs, respawns (oob) and disjunction combined with lack of shrines(atdq). But that's just what I would do based on my playstyle, groups I run with, and how I view the difficulty of the quests.

I personally love Big BB in von 3&4, but that's just how we like to run em. Otoh I use BB in atdq2 a lot, but usually little ones to slowly whittle down the trash till she makes her fianl appearance.

[moops]

Ah yes, I forgot
Also will depend on if you are going in with full groups--or if you are going in and Duoing/Trioing, while people pike at the door, or people join later, etc and how often you do this.

Even tho VON 1 is quite easy, I use more BBs if I am one of the only active players in the quest. AS well as in Wiz King, even with a full group we tend to split into 3 groups and each take a tower, so I need to BB in there-- even if they do not do great damage, they 300avg tick helps the firewalls move faster..

So like Quik says it depends on you and how you play

[maddmatt70]

Ah yes, I forgot
Also will depend on if you are going in with full groups--or if you are going in and Duoing/Trioing, while people pike at the door, or people join later, etc and how often you do this.

Even tho VON 1 is quite easy, I use more BBs if I am one of the only active players in the quest. AS well as in Wiz King, even with a full group we tend to split into 3 groups and each take a tower, so I need to BB in there-- even if they do not do great damage, they 300avg tick helps the firewalls move faster..

So like Quik says it depends on you and how you play

BB seems very inefficient in Wiz king in comparison to bard fascinates and firewalls - I would just grab my wf caster and run around if it came down to it. Von4 bards just absolutely rule with fascinate so I run rabiez in there and if I run it alot more then I do (one of my guildies does not like that it has only 3 chests) I would pick up fascinate constructs on my other bards and just run them. You are right about von1 or 2 but I have joined a few pugs on my cleric where I had to do all the cc because the caster liked to do wail of banshees for instance on mobs that were immune lol. Von3 I prefer more melee style action then gather and burnate which to me is the super boring. So really we are talking about von3 (without burnate and gather although often casters cast wall on the silly stationary archers or danced or what have you), OOB, DQ1, Chain of flames and for fun in Von1 and 2.

I find myself never bb and never soloing my cleric anyway. I like picking up pugs over shortman because I like pugs even pugs that cast wail of banshee haha although have shortmanned this or that. I have to be honest the reality is I run the vast majority of my time with guildies and friends although I will join some pugs on ocassion but they tend to be pugs I know.

[moops]

Since you have the option to have Bards all the time in your group, then I think you pretty much answered your own question--tho--a Bard can facinate everything that you can SOS/GC/or soundburst. . .asn they can prob Soundburst as well depending on build.

A couple of the people I run Wiz King with like to kill almost EVERYTHING--so if I can make it even a few minutes faster, I do--as well as if we split in 3 even if we have a Bard the Bard will only be in one tower, at least to start with. There are not that many Bards in our circle. . .add to the fact that most of the ones that are, are also vying for tokens, so will grab a token when they can get it and will often times be on timer by the time I get around to running the quests.

In most my groups we invis and jump through much content, killing as little as possible.

It seems that you are in groups that like to kill stuff--in that case, I think that enchantment would serve you better as it affects more of your spells--tho it does not work so well in a couple epics--but it would surely work in the GH EPics. ..

[maddmatt70]

Since you have the option to have Bards all the time in your group, then I think you pretty much answered your own question--tho--a Bard can facinate everything that you can SOS/GC/or soundburst. . .asn they can prob Soundburst as well depending on build.

A couple of the people I run Wiz King with like to kill almost EVERYTHING--so if I can make it even a few minutes faster, I do--as well as if we split in 3 even if we have a Bard the Bard will only be in one tower, at least to start with. There are not that many Bards in our circle. . .add to the fact that most of the ones that are, are also vying for tokens, so will grab a token when they can get it and will often times be on timer by the time I get around to running the quests.

In most my groups we invis and jump through much content, killing as little as possible.

It seems that you are in groups that like to kill stuff--in that case, I think that enchantment would serve you better as it affects more of your spells--tho it does not work so well in a couple epics--but it would surely work in the GH EPics. ..

hmm not exactly true regarding killing, but we do not use invis a ton although we do probably kill more then you. Von4 killing for the most part is a total waste of time ( firewalling the dog constructs is a good idea because they die super fast and perhaps killiing a few mobs that were fascinated) so I just fascinate everything or invis and hit levers or what have you. Wiz king we have the mentality of run to the firewall just leave the archer or let mummies follow to the next firewall which is the one exception to burnator - its just way way more efficient that way.

Killing things actually has more merit then you think. I mean who really enjoys farming for scrolls and with the fact that we need a trillion tokens to upgrade epic gear the most efficient way to do epic content maybe to just flat out complete quests and kill a fair amount of the mobs along the way with no scroll or seal farming at all. It takes longer to actually make epic items this way, but when you do make them you are generally ready to upgrade the item. I know paladins who are after 200 epic dungeon tokens so one second spent farming for scrolls is really a waste of time for them.

[moops]

I am not a fan of killing stuff since the drop rate sucks so much that it seems to me that if you kill every thing you might get 1 or 2 scrolls, and if you only kill what is needed you might get 1 or 2 scrolls but get to do more runs in the same amount of time and get tokens and seals and shards. All I am after is tokens.

There seem to be only 3 real sought after scrolls that people don't want to part with--but when Im waiting for a raid to start Ill sometimes farm for those scrolls. And there are always people who will put these on the AH or Trade them eventually, at least that is how I look at it. I like doing 10 - 15 min Tokens, and have the money or items to trade.

[maddmatt70]

I am not a fan of killing stuff since the drop rate sucks so much that it seems to me that if you kill every thing you might get 1 or 2 scrolls, and if you only kill what is needed you might get 1 or 2 scrolls but get to do more runs in the same amount of time and get tokens and seals and shards. All I am after is tokens.

There seem to be only 3 real sought after scrolls that people don't want to part with--but when Im waiting for a raid to start Ill sometimes farm for those scrolls. And there are always people who will put these on the AH or Trade them eventually, at least that is how I look at it. I like doing 10 - 15 min Tokens, and have the money or items to trade.

If you run with a lot of people that run these alot they often put up seals (I put up a spectral gloves seal for roll the other night for example) and will not roll on nice scrolls either. I am not so awash in currency that I can drop 1 mil plat on this or that scroll but more power to you if you are. By the way I dont use resources on these epic runs just to make that clear other then healing scrolls here or there.

Edit: I am not spending that long in these runs either. Von1 is about 20ish minutes and von2 is 15 min von4 is 25 min offering 25-30 min and wiz king is 50 min and von3 about 40 Dq1 45 min. Only one that we have not figured out too well is chain of flame in my opinion, but I still like running it for a change of pace.

[Quikster]

Sounds as if you could get away without big BB just fine.

We run things a little different (I actually dont run a ton of epics with hex for some odd reason) Von 4 starts about the same as far as getting the switches, but from there unless the bard has fascinate construct we let the cleric do most of the cc kiting with BB's as the melees take things out one at a time or several at a time.

I dont run chains. Ive never ever liked that quest. Im not sure why I dont like it, maybe its the long run to it, maybe its all the back and forth, but for whatever reason, I dont even like to run it the 1 time I do to flag

[Anthios888]

If it's worth anything to you, I'm respecing out my max wis / spell pen cleric back to a 19 cleric / 1 barbarian with a nice 2-hander to help back the party up. Other than greater command, I'm really disappointed with how the implementation of epic has effected wisdom-based caster clerics. Keep in mind that this is coming from a real devout and purist on that matter. As a human, feats will be:
toughness, extend, quicken, maximize, heighten, power attack, improved critical: slashing, and spell penetration (will likely drop for emp healing instead when radiant servant comes out). You even have an extra feat and wind stance, so you can have both. I have never been a big empower spell user for my blade barriers, so I can see you dropping that painlessly.

Running around with a big weighted maul or an epic SoS with even a breastplate of destruction is so much more useful than the old cleric playstyle. You're right in the middle of the pack to mass heal when you need to. You're taking advantage of autocrits and actually contributing enough DPS to justify your spot int he party. Sad but true that this is the state of the game.

[maddmatt70]

If it's worth anything to you, I'm respecing out my max wis / spell pen cleric back to a 19 cleric / 1 barbarian with a nice 2-hander to help back the party up. Other than greater command, I'm really disappointed with how the implementation of epic has effected wisdom-based caster clerics. Keep in mind that this is coming from a real devout and purist on that matter. As a human, feats will be:
toughness, extend, quicken, maximize, heighten, power attack, improved critical: slashing, and spell penetration (will likely drop for emp healing instead when radiant servant comes out). You even have an extra feat and wind stance, so you can have both. I have never been a big empower spell user for my blade barriers, so I can see you dropping that painlessly.

Running around with a big weighted maul or an epic SoS with even a breastplate of destruction is so much more useful than the old cleric playstyle. You're right in the middle of the pack to mass heal when you need to. You're taking advantage of autocrits and actually contributing enough DPS to justify your spot int he party. Sad but true that this is the state of the game.

I agree with you Anthios about there being a general lack of clerical divine offensive spells which is very disappointing. Although I am not one for picking up a sword on my cleric for some reason, I would never say never; however, my guildy cleen (dark-star) on the forums is into melee clerics/FVS, but he says it is difficult to really do it well on epics. He is actually trying a ranged FVS character to see if that works better for him.

I understand that your crew is more self sufficient builds and mentality then my crew is so it maybe easier to pull off with your folks. All of this being said I find that my cleric can do a fair amount of stuff with offensive spells. I am almost more limited because of mana pool, but the four spells I list all are useful and effective they are not as effecitve as say mass hold or ottos or firewall or mass charm perhaps but they are effective nontheless and it is what I enjoy doing. It does require a really concerted focus on dcs to make the spells work granted, but it does work I can attest to that.

[Aurora72]

Personally (for what little my opinion is worth), I've been using symbol of stunning a lot lately in epics...it feels a bit easier to land than soundburst to me (even considering heighten and such), but that may just be because it's not a one-shot thing and lasts for a bit. The cooldown gets annoying at times though. As for blade barrier, outside of using it to kill the golems in VoN 4 and occasionally to kite trash in assorted end fights when we end up running without an arcane or our arcane is afk at the entrance, I don't really use it any more in epic groups. Of course with empower and maximize and all that stuff it's great for soloing for scrolls in downtime, but if that's not your thing you won't even miss that stuff...in fact I imagine I'd miss them most (my cleric still has them...I solo for scrolls fairly often) when trying to snipe kills in non-epic quests.

In spite of all that opinion-ey stuff I just wrote though, I definately agree with what Anthios is saying a few posts up. I find that even my pure cleric with laughably low strength is often more useful in [most] epics when she grabs a weighted 5% weapon and hits stuff in melee than when I try to use assorted crowd control spells. In fact, what originally started as a simple joke about trying to dress up as a fighter and seeing how many people I can fool has turned into an actual attempt (admittedly a half-hearted one, much like everything I do) at getting an epic SoS (wouldn't steal one from a melee, but the base sword and some of the parts have been left to rot or been taken for alts that are never really played lately in groups I've been in on occasion), since I honestly see being in melee as the biggest non-healing contribution I can make. Your mileage of course will vary depending on who you group with and whatnot, and if you don't like melee then like I said, disregard all that pro-melee stuff and go with symbol of stunning and command (they do work, and it's always amusing to see them work...I know I smile when I see casters in epic OOB get stunned by my symbol).

[moops]

If you run with a lot of people that run these alot they often put up seals (I put up a spectral gloves seal for roll the other night for example) and will not roll on nice scrolls either. I am not so awash in currency that I can drop 1 mil plat on this or that scroll but more power to you if you are. By the way I dont use resources on these epic runs just to make that clear other then healing scrolls here or there.

Edit: I am not spending that long in these runs either. Von1 is about 20ish minutes and von2 is 15 min von4 is 25 min offering 25-30 min and wiz king is 50 min and von3 about 40 Dq1 45 min. Only one that we have not figured out too well is chain of flame in my opinion, but I still like running it for a change of pace.

Dont get me wrong We get all the chests, we often times dont kill the stuff around the chests. . .

[Anthios888]

I agree with you Anthios about there being a general lack of clerical divine offensive spells which is very disappointing. Although I am not one for picking up a sword on my cleric for some reason, I would never say never; however, my guildy cleen (dark-star) on the forums is into melee clerics/FVS, but he says it is difficult to really do it well on epics. He is actually trying a ranged FVS character to see if that works better for him.

I understand that your crew is more self sufficient builds and mentality then my crew is so it maybe easier to pull off with your folks. All of this being said I find that my cleric can do a fair amount of stuff with offensive spells. I am almost more limited because of mana pool, but the four spells I list all are useful and effective they are not as effecitve as say mass hold or ottos or firewall or mass charm perhaps but they are effective nontheless and it is what I enjoy doing. It does require a really concerted focus on dcs to make the spells work granted, but it does work I can attest to that.

Think of it this way. No matter how you play, the time you spend casting the offensive spells is instead time spent stunning, dpsing, and debuffing via item effects. It's just a way to conserve mana instead of throwing expensive and short soundbursts.