Rogue/ Wiz or Scorcer??

[ur2slow]

I have a level 6 rogue (trap Monkey) and level 1 ranger (for the dual weapons that did not work cause he keep on getting killed) that I want to change to mulit-class with spell casting. I want spell casting for the better offensive spells. He is a drow elf with the following stats:
str 15
dex 19
con 13
int 16
wis 9
cha 10

What do you think?? Thanks for the help.

[BobbieBealz]

No one has replied to your request yet, so figured I'd toss in my 2cp:

Given that your initial stats have points in Int, your pretty much driven to be a wizzie.
Your Dex might not need to be that high, With a higher INT you can pick up the insightful reflexes (sp?) feat to boost your reflex saves and those points would be better placed back to INT ( for the reflex / search / disable and spell casting DC's ) or even CHA ( to take advantage of the unlocked UMD that the rogue levels will give you ).

You might get more feedback and guidance from others more knowledgeable on these forums by thinking through 'why do I want to multiclass?' and getting more specific with what you hope to achieve with the character.


I'd start with the questions about the 'why' then take another look at your starting stats -> then move onto the enhancements / classs choices etc.

[ur2slow]

Wiz or Scorcer??

[Kadran]

Don't do it!

If you want to multiclass a character, think it through. You will save yourself a LOT of time and energy by cutting your losses now and rerolling. I, personally, accept anyone in my LFMs. You will not find that treatment often. I have several "outside-the-box" characters, and w/o a good reputation (and sometimes even with one) it is really difficult to find a group.

Read the forums of the class you want to primarily play. You said a main caster. Check the wizard and sorc forums. Someone has already done your work for you planning this build. Your effort involves looking it up, then leveling the character.

Most people will not take kindly to a 6 rogue/1 ranger/X wizard/sorc unless they've played with you before and know what you're capable of. Some people will never give you a chance.

[BobbieBealz]

You WEREN'T going to re-roll?

Disregard all my above statements and ponder the prior post.

Sorry, I had assumed you were re-rolling your old char.

[gavagai]

He is a drow elf with the following stats:
str 15
dex 19
con 13
int 16
wis 9
cha 10

With these stats, you could cast decent buffs and no-save offensive spells as both a Sorcerer and a Wizard. However, it would be easier to multi into a Wizard, since Wizards rely on INT for their spells. Your INT is higher than you CHA. Sorcerers rely on CHA for spells, and you would need at least 11 CHA to cast level 1 spells, 12 CHA for level 2 spells, &c.

But you shouldn't do it. Here's why.

I have a level 6 rogue (trap Monkey) and level 1 ranger (for the dual weapons that did not work cause he keep on getting killed) that I want to change to mulit-class with spell casting. I want spell casting for the better offensive spells.

A 6rogue/1Ranger/xWizard is going to be very limited in the offensive spells he can cast. I would not recommend either wizard or sorcerer if you want offensive spells. Make a new character instead, a pure Sorc or Wizard.

Most spells get more powerful as you gain wizard levels; and most spells can be resisted by enemies using a formula that takes the spell level into account. What that means is that, even if you took only Wizard levels from level 8, you will cast only as well as a level 13 Wizard.

So I wouldn't get your hopes up about making an effective offensive caster out of your 6rogue/1ranger.

And why, if you are already having trouble with melee, would you make your character squishier with Wizard levels? A solid character multiclasses to build strengths upon strengths. I would keep working with your ranger and rogue levels. A very good balance is 13Rogue/6Ranger/1 Fighter or Monk or Barbarian. Search the Character Build forums for something up-to-date, or else just search for "Ravager" for an older version of that split.

Good luck!

[tc12]

And why, if you are already having trouble with melee, would you make your character squishier with Wizard levels? A solid character multiclasses to build strengths upon strengths. I would keep working with your ranger and rogue levels. A very good balance is 13Rogue/6Ranger/1 Fighter or Monk or Barbarian.

What he said. If you want a Wiz/Ro, they're great but you'd want this as a new character. Only 1 rogue level is needed for excellent trap skills but most go with 2 Rogue levels to gain Evasion. If doing that, you start out rogue, then Wiz until perhaps 10 +/- a bit depending on when you feel you need evasion -- then Wiz on out to 20. No reason to go more than 2 levels.

Now all that said, back to your ranger/rogue. If you're dying to much, honestly you're not playing him correctly. I'm not trying to be mean, hear me out. Rogues are all about agro management. A dex rogue like yours will not have the HP or AC to jump in like a fighter and go toe-to-toe with mobs 1-on-1. When you have agro like that, your damage output is terrible because you don't have sneak attacks.

When mobs come, you need to be holding back a sec, letting a fighter-type (any front-line melee class) hit something and get agro, move to flank it, and then attack. Your sneak damage may pull agro back off the fighter-type, if so block for a sec to let the melee get the agro back. Don't move though, you'll take more damage making the Fighter chase after the mob. Rember he's the one that should have the AC or HP to take the hits, let him. Your massive damage potential as a rogue must be used thoughtfully. You're more than a trap guy and played right will have a ton of DPS to add to any party. Just use it correctly.

If you want to run up and be the first guy in to whack the first mob you see, then roll a barbarian. But ranger/rogue combo's are awesome once you learn how to play them correctly. Don't give up. I have a old Drow Rogue that's 13 Rogue and few Fighter levels that I'll soon be reincarnating to Rogue 13 / Ranger 6 / 1 Barb. And I have an Elf Ranger 16 / Rogue 1. And a Dwarf Ranger 16 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 2. All 2-weapon. The ranger/rogue synergies are great. Both mostly-ranger and mostly-rogue do traps just fine, and each has their strengths.

TC

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd have to echo the advice above - if you want offensive spellcasting, make sure the character is designed for it from the beginning. For a rogue-capable character with great spellcasting, warforged rogue2/wiz18 is a classic & very capable build, but will be played as a caster who can do locks & traps, NOT a rogue who can cast spells.

If starting a new character, another possibility is 2 rogue / 2 paladin / 16 sorcerer. You get some competent (if not amazing) rogue skills, evasion, great saves & effective spellcasting capabilities (if not going for trap skills, monk may be better for evasion plus 2 bonus feats & you can dump INT in favour of other stats). Recommended race would be WF for durability & repair spells (especially since for some no-save damage spells the DC wont be as much of an issue either), but human (for skillpoints) or drow (for build points if dont already have 32point builds) would work too. Though i havent seen the specifics of the build, I'd imagine it requires some careful planning & good equipment, but I've seen it in action a few times played well (was a WF version) & its very effective as a spellcaster with additional capabilities.

[Stonen]

level 1 ranger (for the dual weapons that did not work cause he keep on getting killed)

You only get a free dual weapon feat with 2 levels of ranger. Without it you will have had large penalties to to-hit and wouldn't have hit much. The idea of dual wielding for a rogue is good, so at least take another ranger level.