Revisiting paths: Builds for new players

[Atoro87]

Was just wondering how different the Ninja Spy would be from the light based monk builds you have planned in terms of attribute and skill spreads as well as feats. Seems like it'd be fairly safe to take harmonius balance at 3 using the existing build, which would lose me fists of dark but give me those nice buffing-finishers. I just unlocked monk so either way I'm pretty pumped up haha.

Been using your thief acrobat build with the fighter splash I asked about but since it was just an expirement I'm thinking about re-rolling as a monk splash and dropping the dex a bit to pump up the wis for a little armor hike but I dunno on that one yet.

Can't wait to see some more builds when RL quits dogging you!

[tihocan]

Was just wondering how different the Ninja Spy would be from the light based monk builds you have planned in terms of attribute and skill spreads as well as feats. Seems like it'd be fairly safe to take harmonius balance at 3 using the existing build, which would lose me fists of dark but give me those nice buffing-finishers. I just unlocked monk so either way I'm pretty pumped up haha.

Been using your thief acrobat build with the fighter splash I asked about but since it was just an expirement I'm thinking about re-rolling as a monk splash and dropping the dex a bit to pump up the wis for a little armor hike but I dunno on that one yet.

Can't wait to see some more builds when RL quits dogging you!

Yes, you can go light, it's pretty much just changing the path feat and associated enhancements. But be careful, it looks like there is a plan for a "dark only" PrE, according to recent dev posts. I haven't been following too closely the discussions though, so it might not be Ninja Spy, but I wouldn't be suprised if it was. If that's the case, you wouldn't be able to take the official "Ninja Spy" enhancement line when it is released, if you go light.

Yes, a monk splash can be nice on a thief-acrobat. However it can be hard to achieve good AC at highest levels:
- good AC without armor typically requires some serious gear grind
- a staff user is typically str-based, which tends to hurt your dex (and AC as well, as a consequence)

And, thanks, looks like I'll still be quite busy this week, but *next* one should get better so I can add more

[Daliyn]

I've a question concerning the tempest, why don't you include the weapon enhancements for dwarves and elves? Being a (nearly) pure dps build, aren't i.e. the dwarven axe enhancements much more important/feasible than something like devotion?

I'm sure there's some deeper meaning in your enhancements selection, but I just don't see it...

[Rasczak]

I've a question concerning the tempest, why don't you include the weapon enhancements for dwarves and elves? Being a (nearly) pure dps build, aren't i.e. the dwarven axe enhancements much more important/feasible than something like devotion?

I'm sure there's some deeper meaning in your enhancements selection, but I just don't see it...

You still have ap's left to spend after selecting the enhancements suggested. It also depends on what weapons you go for. Not all dwarven rangers use axes. It's more a personal taste for those enhancements imo.

[tihocan]

I've a question concerning the tempest, why don't you include the weapon enhancements for dwarves and elves? Being a (nearly) pure dps build, aren't i.e. the dwarven axe enhancements much more important/feasible than something like devotion?

I'm sure there's some deeper meaning in your enhancements selection, but I just don't see it...

The proposed build uses khopeshes for all races. In the Variants section it is written:
Races who get bonuses with specific weapons through enhancements (Dwarf, Elf and Drow) may use these weapons instead of Khopeshes (...)
which should be enough of a hint to figure out you'd need to pick said enhancements if you don't want khopesh

[Daliyn]

Thanks for the answers. I must admit that I didn't add up the AP points used for the enhancements you suggested, but supposed that they're equal to the total amount of points you can get and I have to sacrifice something if I follow your hint. If there's still room, that's great

[tihocan]

Thanks for the answers. I must admit that I didn't add up the AP points used for the enhancements you suggested, but supposed that they're equal to the total amount of points you can get and I have to sacrifice something if I follow your hint. If there's still room, that's great

I always try to leave room, as explained in the post about enhancements (linked on each build).

[tunifish]

Hey I was wondering if you could come up with a tank build of some sort next. That seems like the only role that hasn't been made yet in one form or another

[FauxSho]

Hey I was wondering if you could come up with a tank build of some sort next. That seems like the only role that hasn't been made yet in one form or another

Looks like the Stalwart Soldier (Fighter, I assume Stalwart Defender PrE) is next on the list, so that might fit the bill of what you're looking for. There's also The Mighty Protector (Paladin, assuming Defender of Syberis) a bit down the list.

If you'd like something more specific than a rework of the premade paths, there should be something floating around the forums already. You can also try to track down Thanimal to request a build, or sigtrent in the RequestABuild thread here.

[tihocan]

Hey I was wondering if you could come up with a tank build of some sort next. That seems like the only role that hasn't been made yet in one form or another

I should have the Stalwart Defender done by the end of the week

[tunifish]

Thanks I appreciate it

[LadySky]

Arcane Archer (L20 Ranger)

Concept: Ranged build (using a bow), still able to switch to melee when required
Original path's flaws: Too many points spent in Wis, very weak in melee due to lacking feats for it
Main fixes: Took Wis down to increase Str/Dex/Con (depending on race), fixed feats to be better in melee

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf.....Halfling...Human...Warforged.
.Str.....15........14........15........14........14........14....
.Dex.....18......17/18.....18/19.....18/19.....17/18.....17/18...
.Con.....13........16........13........14........14........15....
.Int.....10........8.........8.........8.........8.........8.....
.Wis.....10......11/12.....10/11.....10/11.....11/12.....10/11...
.Cha.....10........6.........8.........8.........8.........6.....

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Dex.

Skills (except Human and Drow): Max out Spot, Hide, Move Silently, UMD, get one rank in Tumble and spend the rest into Balance.
Skills (Human and Drow): Same, but you can max out Concentration as well.

Feats (by level), except Human: Weapon Focus: Ranged (1), Favored Enemy: Undead (1), Point Blank Shot (3), Favored Enemy: Giant (5), Mental Toughness (6), Improved Crit: Ranged (9), Favored Enemy: Construct (10), Improved Crit: <See note below> (12), Toughness (15), Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider (15), Power Attack (18), Favored Enemy: Elemental (20)
Feats (by level), Human: Weapon Focus: Ranged (1), Toughness (1), Favored Enemy: Undead (1), Point Blank Shot (3), Favored Enemy: Giant (5), Mental Toughness (6), Improved Crit: Ranged (9), Favored Enemy: Construct (10), Improved Crit: <See note below> (12), Power Attack (15), Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider (15), Maximize Spell (18), Favored Enemy: Elemental (20)
Special note: The Improved Crit feat at L12 is meant to boost your melee effectiveness and will depend on your race (to take advantage of racial bonuses to some weapons). Dwarves should get Slashing, Elf and Drow Piercing, while Human, Warforged and Halfling may pick either of these.

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Ranger): Arcane Archer I, Conjure +2/+3/+4/+5 Arrows, Devotion II, Dexterity II, Energy Resistance Boost I, Favored Attack I, Favored Damage II, Favored Resistance I, Imbue Force/Acid/Explosive/Terror/Force Burst/Slaying Arrows, Master of Archery (capstone), Skill Boost III (except on Human), Sprint Boost I
Enhancements (Drow): Dexterity II, Enchantment Resistance I, Melee Attack I, Melee Damage I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Constitution I, Melee Attack I, Melee Damage I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense II
Enhancements (Elf): Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I, Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I, Dexterity II, Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II, Ranged Attack II, Ranged Damage II
Enhancements (Halfling): Cunning I, Dexterity II, Guile I, Luck (Reflex) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Dexterity I, Improved Recovery I, Racial Toughness II, Versatility III
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Construct Thinking I, Hardiness I, Healer's Friend I, Racial Toughness II

Soloability by level:
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Tips:
- Do not expect to be a killing machine with a bow. In DDO, ranged damage is purposedly lower than melee, because it is also much safer to attack from distance. The Manyshot feat, that you get at L6, will allow you to fire multiple arrows per shot for a duration of 20s (and can be activated every 2 minutes). This is when your ranged damage will really shine, so use it wisely!
- As a result, one of the most important things a ranged character needs to learn is when it is best to switch to melee, and this build is able to melee reasonably well when required to. Starting at L2 you can dual wield weapons (using a light weapon in off-hand to lessen the to-hit penalty): use axes on a Dwarf, rapiers/shortswords on Elf and Drow, and any reasonable combination on other races (making sure at L12 that you use weapons compatible with your Improved Crit feat).
- Ranged attack speed increases with your Base Attack Bonus, and this is one reason why ranged attacks are awfully slow at low level (when you should be meleing most of the time). It will improve as you level up! You may also carry some Haste potions to boost your attack speed in important fight.
- A common ranging strategy is called 'kiting' and consists in shooting at enemies while running them around, preventing them from hurting you. As effective a solo tactic as it may be, it often frustrates your teammates in a party, because chasing monsters around is not fun and it takes longer to take them down. There are at least two ways to avoid such a counter-productive playstyle in a party: (1) start by aggroing monsters with your bow, but instead of running them around, stand your ground and just switch to melee when they reach you, or (2) wait until a melee grabs aggro before shooting with your bow.
- Just like melee attacks, ranged attacks get to-hit bonuses when standing still. So avoid running and shooting at the same time unless you need it to stay alive (remember you also get a -4 to-hit penalty when shooting while moving).
- Once you get Evasion at L11, make sure you are using light (or no) armor as otherwise Evasion will not work. This build is not really meant to achieve high AC (if you want to be safe, attack from distance!), so you can use your armor slot to get useful magic effects rather than focus on AC (e.g. elemental resistance, False Life or Fortification), possibly using robes/outfits (which are faster to swap than armor).
- Remember that you need a Wis of at least (10 + spell level) to cast a spell. You can use items, enhancements, tomes and the Owl's Wisdom spell to meet this requirement.
- You may start using healing wands at L1, even if you are not able to cast any spell yet.

Variants:
- It could be tempting to splash Rogue for UMD, but overall it is best to stay pure Ranger on such a build, because the Ranger capstone enhancement increases your ranged attack speed.
- It is possible to go Str-based instead of Dex-based (i.e. starting with a bit higher Str and spending level-up points in Str instead of Dex). The main benefit is higher damage output, at the cost of lower to-hit. The Dex-based version was preferred here because it is easier for new players who may not have good enough gear to compensate for lower to-hit. The Str-based version would overall be more effective through most of the game (with appropriate gear), although if you start running Epic content at L20, the to-hit loss will probably matter against the highest AC foes.
- To keep presentation simple, the Elf presented here focuses on Piercing weapons for melee damage (typically dual wielding a rapier with a shortsword), but going for Slashing weapons works just as well (with a scimitar/kukri combination). Just switch your L12 Improved Crit feat to Slash and pick the Valenar instead of Aerenal Elf melee enhancements if you go this route.
- Other potentially useful Favored Enemies include Aberration (useful from mid to high level), and Goblinoid (low to mid level). In the current state of the game, the most important Favored Enemy to get in the long term is Evil Outsider.
- There is some freedom for the L18 feat in the Human version. Maximize was chosen to be able to self-heal faster in tough fights. Other options include Skill Focus: UMD, or saves feats like Luck of Heroes or Lightning Reflexes.

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

Is it worth to do Halfling and take the mark (so i could heal myself too) or is not a good idea?

[tihocan]

Is it worth to do Halfling and take the mark (so i could heal myself too) or is not a good idea?

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me, I don't see how you can fit the 3 dragonmark feats without significantly hurting the build.

[LadySky]

Doesn't sound like a good idea to me, I don't see how you can fit the 3 dragonmark feats without significantly hurting the build.

k thx

(but so, when are the marks usefull at the end? O_o)

[Atoro87]

I have to say that the Ninja Spy re-work is awesome! You're spot on about the button mashing, but after coming from playing a Paladin where I felt like there wasn't enough button mashing this is a welcome change.

Some feedback on the tips section of this particular build:
You may want to add something on the utility of flame stance in certain scenarios, especially around level 9 if a player grabs ToD then. A reliable haster and healer makes it pretty viable since attack rate and AC will be only slightly off windstance while hasted. Running Tempest's Spine the first time on this build was pretty entertaining since i would get hasted, crank up my ki, run up ahead and one-shot clays/giants/whatever. This does mean turning off Power Attack alot of the time though so DPS will drop off slightly until you land a crushing blow.

Windstance and a standard aid/bless will let you crank up the to-hit enough to leave power attack on even when it isn't viable for other melees and you should garner enough ki to spam whatever level of storm strike you have pretty consitently with the added benefit of next to nothing, at least as far as I've gone, having electric DR/immunity except oozes and obvious air type MoBs.

The class is in general loot dependant, but that said if you're willing to grind specific quests, either for end loot or gear drops, you can stay ahead of the curve pretty easy. The virtue of carrying lightweight, quick swapping gear is that you can set up specific sets for any given scenario and quickly cycle through them. The added benefit of re-running quests means getting the maximum XP for that area, I sucked waterworks and delara's dry to get the loot I wanted but was able to level quicker than I have with other classes.

House P buffs can be pretty necessary if you're low on funds and haven't gotten those + to dex/con/str/wis items yet. Getting them can be a bit rough early on without Tangleroot Gorge but potions can easily take the place, though this is a more costly and best used situationaly.

It's a good idea to use switch to ocean stance and use wholeness of body when others are shrining/ formulating strategy in harder missions. This saves the shrine for you and SP for healers, that way if some catastrohic event happens you can pluck victory from the jaws of defeat by either making repeated runs to the shrine to res your party(been there done that) or res yourself, shrine, throw on windstance and take over the rescue yourself (been there done that).

Having a mage armor clicky (the oufit you get in kortho's will hang around for a long time) is useful if you haven't gotten black widow bracers or any other AC items yet. Shield of Faith, protection items, and barkskin will help you crank AC well above most others of your level. Those with the best fortification item you can afford can go a long way towards keeping you alive on top of saving that healer some SP, toss in windstance and evasion/imp. evasion and you can bounce around the front line chain-punching like a win-chun master while having most hits roll right off.

Now I'm off to punch away haha.

[tihocan]

(but so, when are the marks usefull at the end? O_o)

Most of the time, they're not.

[tihocan]

Some feedback on the tips section of this particular build: (...)

Thanks, that's some good points I added that in my TODO list, so I won't forget to add them when I get a chance (shouldn't take that long, but right now this list is growing more than shrinking ).

[Jedamijo]

Just wanted to add my thanks to the list. What sets these builds apart from all the others and appeals to me is the fact that they are 28-pt builds with no further expectations. There is no mention of "This build can only be achieved as a 32 pt build" or " Make sure to buy +X stat tomes by Y level so you can take this feat".

I primarily play permadeath and our rule set does not allow purchase of magic from vendors or use of the AH or DDO store for items, nor do we permit trading of items other than consumables. So if we can't find it in game, we can't use it. Given this, trying to follow a build that requires a +1 DEX tome to take ITWF at a certain level is not going to work.

Incidentally, the best I've done so far is getting a Font of Healing Cleric to level 7 before death. I unfortunately found myself in a short manned level 9 quest and in a position of being one of the front line melee. As you well know, this is not a melee build.

[tihocan]

Stalwart Soldier (L20 Fighter)

Concept: Intimi-tank focusing on defense, but still able to switch to a more offensive role if needed
Original path's flaws: Many wasted feats (in particular multiple Toughness, Improved Sunder, Improved Shield Bash)
Main fixes: Revised stats and feats to get in particular better Will saves, Intimidate, UMD, Damage Reduction while shield-blocking and damage output with Two-Handed weapons

Alignment: Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Good, Neutral, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good

Stats and Race (28/32 pt):
........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf.....Halfling...Human...Warforged.
.Str.....15......14/15.....14/15.....13/14.....14/15.......14....
.Dex.....14......15/16.......14........14........14........14....
.Con.....14........14......13/14.....14/15.....14/15.....14/16...
.Int.....13........13........13........13........13........13....
.Wis.....8.........9.........8.........8.........8........9/10...
.Cha.....13........10........13........13........13......10/11...

Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Str.

Skills, except Human: At character creation, get one rank (two skill points) into Tumble, max out Intimidate and UMD, and spend your remaining skill points into Balance. On further levels, keep Intimidate and UMD maxed out, and spend extra skill points into Balance.
Skills, Human: Same, but Balance can be maxed out at all levels, while extra skill points should go into Jump.

Feats (by level), Drow, Elf and Halfling: Toughness (1), Dodge (1), Combat Expertise (2), Improved Trip (3), Shield Mastery (4), Weapon Focus: Slash (6), Weapon Specialization: Slash (6), Improved Critical: Slash (8), Force of Personality (9), Power Attack (10), Skill Focus: Intimidate (12), Improved Shield Mastery (12), Greater Weapon Specialization: Slash (14), Bullheaded (15), Two-Handed Fighting (16), Skill Focus: UMD (18), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (18), Greater Two-Handed Fighting (20)
Feats (by level), Human: (Updated on 2010/10/07, click here if you started this build earlier): Toughness (1), Dodge (1), Force of Personality (1), Combat Expertise (2), Improved Trip (3), Shield Mastery (4), Weapon Focus: Slash (6), Weapon Specialization: Slash (6), Improved Critical: Slash (8), Least Dragonmark of Sentinel [requires unlocking dragonmarks] (9), Power Attack (10), Skill Focus: Intimidate (12), Improved Shield Mastery (12), Greater Weapon Specialization: Slash (14), Bullheaded (15), Two-Handed Fighting (16), Skill Focus: UMD (18), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (18), Greater Two-Handed Fighting (20)
Feats (by level), Dwarf: Toughness (1), Dodge (1), Combat Expertise (2), Improved Trip (3), Shield Mastery (4), Weapon Focus: Slash (6), Weapon Specialization: Slash (6), Improved Critical: Slash (8), Skill Focus: Intimidate (9), Power Attack (10), Bullheaded (12), Improved Shield Mastery (12), Greater Weapon Specialization: Slash (14), Skill Focus: UMD (15), Two-Handed Fighting (16), Lightning Reflexes (18), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (18), Greater Two-Handed Fighting (20)
Feats (by level), Warforged: Adamantine Body (1), Dodge (1), Combat Expertise (2), Toughness (3), Improved Trip (4), Weapon Focus: Slash (6), Shield Mastery (6), Improved Critical: Slash (8), Weapon Specialization: Slash (9), Power Attack (10), Skill Focus: Intimidate (12), Improved Shield Mastery (12), Greater Weapon Specialization: Slash (14), Bullheaded (15), Two-Handed Fighting (16), Skill Focus: UMD (18), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (18), Greater Two-Handed Fighting (20)

Special note: Enhancements below marked with a (*) should be taken so as to maximize your Dexterity bonus to AC. The exact amount you need will depend on your gear, and this is why no specific tier is provided. Make sure you read the AC page on DDOWiki to understand AC in general and maximum Dexterity bonus to AC in particular. Ideally the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC of your Armor and Tower Shield would be equal (after bonuses from enhancements), and your Dexterity modifier would be high enough to reach this same number.

For more information about picking enhancements please read this post.
Enhancements (Fighter): Armor Class Boost III, Armor Mastery III, Haste Boost III, Intimidate II, Item Defense II, Stalwart Defender III, Strategy (Trip) II, Strength II, Tower Shield Mastery (*), Weapon Alacrity (capstone)
Enhancements (Drow): Dexterity (*), Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Dwarf): Armor Mastery (*), Axe Attack I, Axe Damage I, Constitution I, Racial Toughness II, Spell Defense II, Tactics I
Enhancements (Elf): Dexterity (*), Enchantment Resistance I, Racial Toughness II, Valenar Elf Melee Attack I, Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancements (Halfling): Dexterity (*), Guile I, Hero's Companion III, Luck (Reflex) I, Luck (Will) I, Racial Toughness II
Enhancements (Human): Adaptability Strength I, Improved Recovery II, Racial Toughness II, Versatility III
Enhancements (Warforged): Constitution I, Construct Thinking I, Great Weapon Aptitude I, Healer's Friend II, Racial Toughness II, Tactics I

Soloability by level:
No hireling..: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
With hireling: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Tips:
- This build is meant to be able to switch between defense and offense. In defensive mode, you would be using a one-handed weapon with a Tower Shield (use whichever slashing weapon works best for you, it does not matter much since you will deal low damage). Gather monsters around you with the Intimidate skill, and get into the Combat Expertise and Stalwart Defender defensive stances while shield-blocking to mitigate as much damage as possible. Switch to offensive mode when there is no point in mitigating damage, wielding a Two-Handed Weapon (Greataxe on Dwarf, Falchion on Elf, and either Greataxe, Falchion or Greatsword for other races), and turning on Power Attack.
- Remember blocking angle is important: you will not benefit from increased Damage Reduction if attacks come from behind you, so avoid being surrounded (corners and doors are your friends).
- Your best armor will be Mithral Full Plate until you can obtain Dragontouched Armor. Shield-wise, try to find a Mithral Tower Shield, and at L15+ run the Hound of Xoriat raid to obtain Levik's Defender (in the meantime you can also try to get the Madstone Shield from the Reaver's Fate raid).
- Other common ways to increase your AC include Protection items, Barkskin potions, weapons of Parrying (and later on, crafted items with Insight bonus to AC), the Chaosgarde bracers, crafting recipes to increase the AC provided by your armor and shield, and more high level items found mostly in raids or Epic content. Overall, you will need some minimum amount of grinding to acquire the gear required for good AC at highest levels (although you can reach a decent AC without too much grind).
- Try to regularly use your Trip ability, it can be very effective, especially against casters.
- At low and mid-levels you should be able to solo rather easily, thanks to your good AC. At higher levels you will have to be in your strongest defensive mode for your AC to be really effective, which will take down your damage output, and you will better be grouping with damage-oriented melees.
- The investment in the UMD skill will not pay off until the later levels, but then you will be able to reach a useful score in this skill if you focus on it.
- Once you get the Force of Personality feat (Warforged and Dwarf do not get it), you do not need to wear a +Wis item anymore: focus on Cha instead, which will also boost your Intimidate and UMD.

Variants:
- Such a build can benefit from splashing two levels of Paladin: this gives in particular a significant bonus to saves (equal to your Cha modifier), early access to healing wands, and +1 AC through the Paladin Aura (assuming no other Paladin is near you). The drawback is the loss of the Fighter capstone (+10% double strike) and one feat (for instance Lightning Reflexes on a Human, or Greater Two-Handed Fighting otherwise). Overall it is well worth it on such a defensive build, and it was not done here mostly because it would not work well with all races without 32 pt builds and/or tomes (you would want to start with a bit more Cha to gain more benefit from the bonus to saves). If you go this route, remember to start with the Lawful Good alignment (required for Paladins), and run your character through the character planner to make sure your feat plan works (some feats are Fighter bonus feats that must be chosen among a subset of all feats, which can make planning tricky).
- Another popular variant that was not done here mostly because it is more stat and tome-dependent is to go for Two-Weapon Fighting instead of Two-Handed Fighting. Since a decent starting Dex is required for AC, it makes sense to take the opportunity to dual wield weapons at the same time (which requires 17+ Dex, counting only base score and tomes). This is especially powerful combined with Improved Trip, since your target needs to make two saves to avoid being tripped. In order to achieve this, ideally you would start with 15 Dex and use a +2 Dex tome later on (a Dwarf may start with higher Dex for AC purpose). This can be combined with the above Paladin variant.
- If you can get a Cha tome on a Dwarf or Warforged, you may tweak your stats and feats so as to pick Force of Personality (that requires 13+ Cha with base score and tomes). For instance Dwarf could follow the same feat progression as Drow, Elf and Halfling, while Warforged may drop Greater Two-Handed Fighting (be careful to re-do the feat progression with the character planner as it may require a significantly different feat order, since Force of Personality is not a Fighter bonus feat).
- If you can get an Int tome, you can take down Int by the same amount: the goal is to be able to reach 13 so as to pick Combat Expertise. You will need to switch some feats around (or respec them after using the tome) since you will not be able to pick Combat Expertise at L2. You will also lose a few skill points: just make sure you keep Intimidate and UMD maxed out.
- You may pick Cleave / Great Cleave instead of Improved / Greater Two-Handed Fighting. The purpose of Cleave would be to grab aggro from a group of monsters by hitting them all at once at the beginning of a fight. However, you can usually achieve the same result using Intimidate or swinging a Two-Handed Weapon (that deals Glancing Blows around you), so it is not necessarily better. I would mostly recommend Cleave instead of Improved Two-Handed Fighting if you do not have room for Greater Two-Handed Fighting (e.g. because you would be splashing Paladin and need to drop a feat).
- If you are debating Human vs Dwarf, consider the following: Humans get better Cha and thus benefit more from a Paladin splash and can reach higher Intimidate / UMD (in particular with the Human Versatility enhancement and the Least Dragonmark of Sentinel), they are also healed more easily with Improved Recovery. The main reason to go Dwarf, besides the Con enhancements, is access to the racial Armor Mastery enhancements, which can allow you to reach higher AC (assuming you can get the gear to boost your Dex high enough).
- This build is close in spirit to the Mighty Protector Paladin path. Roughly speaking, the Paladin may not reach as high Armor Class nor sustained damage output as the Fighter when in a group, but is more self-sufficient, and has better saves. The Paladin class also requires more "active" gameplay, due to short-term buffs and special abilitites.

Color code: best to worst = green, yellow, orange, red

[Jedamijo]

With regard to the Stalwart Soldier build...

When would be the best time to splash the two Paladin levels if one was thinking of going that route?

And, what do you think of this?

Im interested int his build after making my first stalwart defender. However Im wondering. Would dropping a toughness or two, taking out greater weapon spec and focus, and maybe something else, and picking up Cleave, Great Cleave, and Whirlwind be viable? I've found that you can use those abilities while holding up a shield, keeping your AC and DR while attacking. and if you alternate those with intimidate, you can pretty much be a blender.

Its not killer DPS, but it adds to hate gen and lets you do something while you've got that shield up

This was in the RIOTT thread, so doesn't necessarily apply to this build. Mostly asking about the substitution of Cleave, Great Cleave, and possibly Whirlwind feats. Looks like Cleave and Great Cleave would be easy enough, but Whirlwind Attack has too many prereqs. Do you really retain your AC and DR granted by the shield when using Cleave?