best stats for a clasic BC?

[kartos]

so hey i wanna try a bc(mainly because of the dont make BC thread)

and i want to use a mace+shield

the thing is im not sure about the stats

race:human
stats

option 1:
16 STR
10 dex
14 con
16 wis
8int
8cha

option 2:
14 str
8dex
14con
18 wis
8int
8con

what do u suggest?

[acidtiger]

You'll find most melee focused clerics are spec'd for two weapon fighting or two handed fighting. Sword and board, mace and board in this case, doesn't really do much damage.

[sirgog]

You'll find most melee focused clerics are spec'd for two weapon fighting or two handed fighting. Sword and board, mace and board in this case, doesn't really do much damage.

Agreed.

Mace (or sword or axe) and board is only good from level 1 to about level 7. After that, you won't have a meaningful AC anyway, so you may as well use the most damaging weapons.

My sig has a link to a few cleric build outlines; some might suit you.

[samho]

Agreed.

Mace (or sword or axe) and board is only good from level 1 to about level 7. After that, you won't have a meaningful AC anyway, so you may as well use the most damaging weapons.

My sig has a link to a few cleric build outlines; some might suit you.

You can have meaningful AC with SnB style, just more harder, anyway.

However, if you build with AC, you can still switch to 2hander and pop up PA when there's no need to have AC up and switch back when situation needed.

[cdemeritt]

First, if you are new to the game, I would not recommend that your first cleric be a battle cleric... Is this your first cleric? Battle clerics can be a great deal of fun to play, but without some skills picked up from playing a healing cleric, things are a little more difficult, and they can easily be gimped, and hard to fix. If you really want to play more than a healbot (they can be boring to play), and this is your first cleric, I would recommend an offensive casting cleric. Why?, because at low to mid levels you'll be able to melee effectively and do good damage, but once you get to higher levels, melee is good in groups, but most of the damage output is going to be from spells( Blade Barrier, Destruction, banish, comet fall, etc) These spells can easily be swapped out for healing spells when needed, and are almost as powerful as arcanes. (my sorc's FoD has a DC of 34 (fort save), my clerics destruction has a DC of 30 (Fort save), and this isn't maxed yet)


I do want to warn you, your first duty as a cleric will always keep the party alive. This doesn't always mean being a nannybot, but if people start dying, you will get the blame. Every Battle cleric I know takes their turn healing when in a raid. The good ones heal and fight, and all of the above, just be prepared to catch flack if you don't heal.

So to your question of stats..... option 2 will be your better choice for your cleric, whatever path you go... (as a cleric you want to max you wisdom for best spell points and dc's for spells)

[SirAggravator]

I agree with cdmerrit's advice but I went option 1 and use sword and board.
Your damage with S&B weapons won't be spectacular but you can count on
vorpals, stat damagers and other insta-kill weapons (and greensteel later on).
Instead you will be most damaging with your spells. Heightened, empowered (or maximised)
Blade barrier with a potency item will do massive damage - particularly on crits.
One tip with BB is to kite mobs so that they run in circles along the edges of the barriers for
mulitple hits in the space of a few seconds.

Playing a melee/caster/healing cleric can be one of the hardest styles to play - especially to do
all 3 at the same time effectively..
As a new player 18 is really expensive on any stat and I've found base 16 is pretty effective
even at high levels. It's the difference of +1 DC from wis 16.

You may want to try squeeze khopesh into your feat lists at a later time. If you stay pure cleric (as I did) then Longswords are available to you with a cleric enhancement. I would forget the maces

[acidtiger]

I agree with cdmerrit's advice but I went option 1 and use sword and board.
Your damage with S&B weapons won't be spectacular but you can count on
vorpals, stat damagers and other insta-kill weapons (and greensteel later on).
Instead you will be most damaging with your spells. Heightened, empowered (or maximised)
Blade barrier with a potency item will do massive damage - particularly on crits.
One tip with BB is to kite mobs so that they run in circles along the edges of the barriers for
mulitple hits in the space of a few seconds.

Playing a melee/caster/healing cleric can be one of the hardest styles to play - especially to do
all 3 at the same time effectively..
As a new player 18 is really expensive on any stat and I've found base 16 is pretty effective
even at high levels. It's the difference of +1 DC from wis 16.

You may want to try squeeze khopesh into your feat lists at a later time. If you stay pure cleric (as I did) then Longswords are available to you with a cleric enhancement. I would forget the maces

Helping out the group with paralyzers etc can be done with a, to use Sirgog's labels, a melee capable cleric. There's no reason why a pure healing cleric with a sprinkle of strength can't get up into the frey and beat on things - if the situation is right. If no one is taking much dmg, this is acceptable, I don't think any group would complain. These are the sort of things you learn as you go, and why people will advise playing a pure cleric and healing for awhile before trying a melee spec'd cleric.

[ratpacker]

Helping out the group with paralyzers etc can be done with a, to use Sirgog's labels, a melee capable cleric. There's no reason why a pure healing cleric with a sprinkle of strength can't get up into the frey and beat on things - if the situation is right. If no one is taking much dmg, this is acceptable, I don't think any group would complain. These are the sort of things you learn as you go, and why people will advise playing a pure cleric and healing for awhile before trying a melee spec'd cleric.

I agree with the above. It takes a while to get use to playing a cleric (from my own exp = currently level 10) who also melees when everything is going smoothly. The important thing is know your role well - if you are the main / only healer in the group, healing is more important than hitting. The main problem is not to let your attention wander off too long from trying to hit monsters and neglected your team mates health bar.

With regards to stats - use Sirgog's melee capable build for 28pointer. Only start with Battlecleric build if you have a 32pointer.

[cdemeritt]

I'm going to expand a little on my previous advice... If you want to play a battle cleric, but have never played a cleric, I would recommend you build yourself a healing battle bard.

here is a link to a good one.. at least haggle/healing bard. Easily adapted to a 28 pt build. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168293

Why a bard if you want to play a battle cleric? well, with masters touch, you can use all martial weapons without, penalty, you get access to a number of great arcane buffs, and get healing spells. At low to mid levels your healing will be on par to a clerics (however this fades as you go up in levels). most importantly, you will most likely not be a groups main healer, and in many groups once a bard is done buffing, they don't expect too much more from a bard... what you can do is bonus, but not often depended on. (a good bard can and does more, and can heal however).. This will help you develope the multi-tasking needed to be a battle cleric while not **** people off.

Also a haggle bard can be a great help to you when it comes to buying supplies and not going broke. a bard can easily achieve the best haggle scores, greatly reducing the costs of pot/wand/scrolls. (which if you plan on using SP for anything other than healing, you better be well supplied with)

[Anderei]

As somebody who leveled a favored soul and now is leveling a haggle/caster bard I can wholy agree with cdemeritt advice! And having all those buffing skills to not only buff the party but also buff yourself improves your melee capabilites! (Haste!, Songs, Good Hope, Heroism, Displacement)

I for one focused the bard on offensive casting (mostly following the famous haggle-bard build here), so have no place for TWF feats, however you can easily do differently.

[SirAggravator]

Agree a bard would be a great choice (it was my first class) to learn the ropes for a melee cleric and like cdmeritt says no-one expects you to be the sole healer.
Looking at the link to the spellsinger - I'd also recommend a warchanter for the damage enhancements. For a 28pt build again I'd personally go for 16 CHA instead of 18 CHA as 18 is expensive in build points.
It's nice to have the option later to go two weapon fighting - so I'd also suggest DEX to 12 and hope for a +3 tome
dropping (rare I know but at least it's a small possibility).

[Greydeath]

It's nice to have the option later to go two weapon fighting - so I'd also suggest DEX to 12 and hope for a +3 tome
dropping (rare I know but at least it's a small possibility).

This would be virtually useless.

[SirAggravator]

This would be virtually useless.

twf for a melee bard useless, why's that?
Not trying to be antagonistic (just can't express tone on the forum) I'm interested to know why.

[Kriogen]

...and i want to use a mace+shield
..

Not good. This is giving proper Battle Clerics a bad name.

I would not expect from a BC to out damage a raging barbarian, but atleast he should be able to do something that is "visible". Mace+shield is the worst possible option. Maybe in PnP, but not in DDO.

I had (on Euro server) a Khopesh+Shield, Human, Cleric13/Rogue2/Ranger1. I was NOT impressed with melee. I used the best possible 1handed weapon and it was still not good. When I dumped Khopesh and switched to Scimitar, my damage output was the same, but atleast on-critical effects weapons worked better.

I noticed that any form of sword+shield is blah. It's very good for defensive turtle mode, but thats it.

I also (on the same char) tested 2handed weapons. It was better then khopesh+shield. Not by alot tho. Problem was low Str. Str 22-24 is not really "strong".

If you ask me, the only way to make a proper Battle Cleric is to go full TWF mode. And best to go with a race that gets racial enhancements for weapons, so Elf or Drow. This way you get something that can be called DPS and you also use weapons with high critical range for special effects (smite, banish, etc). Drow/Elf also get cheaper Dex (for TWF).

TWF is also supported with the fact that Cleric get Divine Favor (and maybe Divine Might). It gives "fixed" damage bonus per weapon per hit. So more weapons, more hits, more damage.

Classic BC in DDO would be Drow or Elf, Monk2/Cleric18 with Greater TWF, Power Attack and Improved Critical feats.

[Greydeath]

twf for a melee bard useless, why's that?
Not trying to be antagonistic (just can't express tone on the forum) I'm interested to know why.

Because while 15 DEX (your 12 base + 3 tome) qualifies you for TWF, it still leaves you two points short of the 17 required for iTWF & gTWF; without which you are wasting your time.

[SirAggravator]

Because while 15 DEX (your 12 base + 3 tome) qualifies you for TWF, it still leaves you two points short of the 17 required for iTWF & gTWF; without which you are wasting your time.

Thanks for the explanation. Didn't realise how important getting the full TWF line was.

[kartos]

ok so i at last have time to create the toon and here are my replies or you:
first off u had a healbot before and had TWF cleric but im getting me FVS thus i wanna rest him to TWF FVS and make a mace and sheild user maybe scimitar and sheild but that's the max im planing on putting my lvl up points into wis so i will be a healbot+offensive caster with a touch of melee so is the second option good for that?