Bow using Paladin?

[Catholicon]

Can a Paladin be effective as a Bow user?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Never.


Here's why:

In order to be good with ranged, you need a number of feats:

Bow Strength, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Improved Critical: Ranged, Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot. Add in Toughness (I think this is important for EVERY character, and you need to be human to get them all. Or you could be elf and try to go for Arcane Archer (which is, at the moment, the only ranged DPS that is viable...and even that's debateable) here, but you'd lose the Human Bonus Feat, and one of your feats would have to go for Mental Toughness in order to qualify for it. Oh, and you'd also need Weapon Focus: Ranged, so you lose a third feat.

And then on top of it, Paladins have no synergy with ranged. Hunter of the Undead gives no ranged bonuses (and sucks in general), Knight of the Chalice only affects melee attacks and while Defender of Siberys DOES give you increased STR for a little better damage on your bow it also makes you move much slower, which negates the purpose of being ranged, namely, that you're not getting hit back.

If you want to make a ranged character, you pretty much have to either be a Ranger (who gets all the feats for free) or a Fighter (with all the bonus feats).

[Jay203]

Never.


Here's why:

In order to be good with ranged, you need a number of feats:

Bow Strength, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Improved Critical: Ranged, Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot. Add in Toughness (I think this is important for EVERY character, and you need to be human to get them all. Or you could be elf and try to go for Arcane Archer (which is, at the moment, the only ranged DPS that is viable...and even that's debateable) here, but you'd lose the Human Bonus Feat, and one of your feats would have to go for Mental Toughness in order to qualify for it. Oh, and you'd also need Weapon Focus: Ranged, so you lose a third feat.

And then on top of it, Paladins have no synergy with ranged. Hunter of the Undead gives no ranged bonuses (and sucks in general), Knight of the Chalice only affects melee attacks and while Defender of Siberys DOES give you increased STR for a little better damage on your bow it also makes you move much slower, which negates the purpose of being ranged, namely, that you're not getting hit back.

If you want to make a ranged character, you pretty much have to either be a Ranger (who gets all the feats for free) or a Fighter (with all the bonus feats).

actually, the only feats you need to be effective bow user are:
Bow Strength
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Optional Pluses:
Improved Critical
(Shot on the Run if you have low attack bonus)

but back on topic, why bother making a bow Paladin? O_o
as a paladin you'll need con for hp, wis for spell casting, cha for paladin abilities
by trying to go for bow, you now need dex for to-hit and str for bonus damage
not exactly efficient o_O

[AylinIsAwesome]

actually, the only feats you need to be effective bow user are:
Bow Strength
Rapid Shot
Many Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Optional Pluses:
Improved Critical
(Shot on the Run if you have low attack bonus)

I mentioned Point Blank Shot because every extra bonus to damage will help offset the initial gimp of going ranged instead of melee...and it'd help in epic.

[Catholicon]

You mean, not the best way to min/max.

What about multiclassing with 2 levels of Ranger for Bow Strength and Rapid Shot, and 2 levels of Fighter for Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus and being an Elf for Arcane Archer?

[toughguyjoe]

You mean, not the best way to min/max.

What about multiclassing with 2 levels of Ranger for Bow Strength and Rapid Shot, and 2 levels of Fighter for Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus and being an Elf for Arcane Archer?

Heres the thing. One of a paladins best damage dealing abilities, Smite Evil (and later Exalted Smite Evil) cannot be used with a ranged weapon

[Freeman]

You mean, not the best way to min/max.

What about multiclassing with 2 levels of Ranger for Bow Strength and Rapid Shot, and 2 levels of Fighter for Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus and being an Elf for Arcane Archer?

By going ranged, there are some strong paladin abilities that simply won't work.(Like Smite Evil) If you still want to do it, I would suggest doing something like 14/6 paladin/ranger. At least then, you'll get some good bow feats for free, and also the first two TWF feats as well. And you'll have the Tempest option open later if you change your mind

[SarKarNor]

I am running a Dwarf Pally and have found a use for crossbow, especially while questing solo. (I think Dwarf automatically has crossbow proficiency.) I hit one or two to from a distance and draw them to me. It takes a couple HP off the baddies and the distance allows enough time to change back to the normal bashing weapons. Crossbow bolts are available for pennies.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I've had difficulty building any ranged toon that was not heavy in Rgr or Ftr lvls.
Because of the number of feats needed.

it would be interesting to make a Ranged Pal, Clr, or Fvs. Because of the Silver Flame faith enhancments.

It's easier with a human, but would work better as an Elf.

Rgr2/Ftr2/Pal16 (Clr16, Fvs16) Are possibilities. But it would be kinda cool to have a ranged one with the capstones.

Rgr 6 is probably the best choice, as it also give TWF, and it's best to avoid one trick ponies anyway. Coule even fit Mnk 2 into the build for evasion and two more feats (although none that really help ranged I think)

[Demoyn]

Can a Paladin be effective as a Bow user?

That depends on how you define effective. There's not a bow-user in the GAME that can be exceptionally good, but paladin is one of the worst classes to even try with.

[Jay203]

That depends on how you define effective. There's not a bow-user in the GAME that can be exceptionally good, but paladin is one of the worst classes to even try with.

i was wondering how long it'll take for Demo to wander in here too

[MissErres]

I have an Elven 12 pally/6 ranger (tempest). Not quite sure yet if I'm going monk last 2 levels or just pally. But she, on occasion, pulls out her bow and doesn't completly suck at it. It's not my attack method of choice cuz, well ranged just kinda sux all around IMO, but it has it's place.

So yes, it can be doable with some ranger levels thrown in, but not something I would recommend.

[AylinIsAwesome]

You mean, not the best way to min/max.

What about multiclassing with 2 levels of Ranger for Bow Strength and Rapid Shot, and 2 levels of Fighter for Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus and being an Elf for Arcane Archer?

I mean that it's just a 100% bad idea.

I'm not trying to be rude here. I'm really not. But it's just a bad idea. It'd be like trying to build a monk that uses handaxes (because they get prof for some reason), even though none of your Monk abilities will work while you use the weapon.


Similarly, almost none of your Paladin abilities will work with a bow. Smites/Exalted Smites won't work with it, I'm 90% sure Divine Sacrifices won't work with it, Knight of the Chalice damage doesn't work with it...


If you want to be a ranged character, the way to go is either Ranger of Fighter. There's actually a build on the forums that's Fighter 18/Bard 1/Barbarian 1 that has good UMD and can tank when needed in raids (according to the poster). When Update 3 comes out, my ranged character will probably be very similar to this build, so you might want to look into it. It gets all the goodness out of Arcane Archer and Kensei, for the increased crit range and damage. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post2458048

[Talamare2k4]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 207 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 20
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    16

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Remove Disease I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I

Now go kill those undead!... (you can replace the +1 dex ability raise @ 4 with a +1 dex tome, use the extra point in str instead then)

[Aranticus]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 207 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 20
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    20
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    16

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Remove Disease I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I

Now go kill those undead!... (you can replace the +1 dex ability raise @ 4 with a +1 dex tome, use the extra point in str instead then)

and i will say that no one will take this toon on further runs

[Talamare2k4]

and i will say that no one will take this toon on further runs

I never said I would play it, but if the guy asked for a build, I dont mind supplying him one~

[AylinIsAwesome]

I never said I would play it, but if the guy asked for a build, I dont mind supplying him one~

Except...this build will be more or less meaningless once you get out of Delera's and the Necropolis.

[Aranticus]

I never said I would play it, but if the guy asked for a build, I dont mind supplying him one~

lets not give them ideas. i've seen enough bad builds lately, like a 10 con wf barb....

[AylinIsAwesome]

lets not give them ideas. i've seen enough bad builds lately, like a 10 con wf barb....

On that same note, running through Korthos last week on a new character, I ran into an elven Bard, who flat-out told me his CON of 6 was fine with him, since he was just gonna stand in the back and sing anyway...

[MissErres]

On that same note, running through Korthos last week on a new character, I ran into an elven Bard, who flat-out told me his CON of 6 was fine with him, since he was just gonna stand in the back and sing anyway...

I think I ran the Shroud with him the other day. No, wait, that one didn't even sing unless told.