PD Halls of Valhalla - recent growth

[Chai]

Wont be planning on running away with my cleric build, just want to make sure the wizard has to stay, and will slowly wait until all of his spells are cast, and yes Wizards are useless once their spells are cast, and unlike ddo they have to memorize their spells and get a very limited amount of them, as do clerics, but clerics dont need to use their spells for offense!!!

I would be more than happy to dual with you with 3.5 builds, your wizard versus my multiclass prestige Cleric build!!!!

We could set an xp amount and an amount of gp spent on gear!!!

Then after writing them both up in a personal document including all gear and all memorized spells(including currently active casted spells), we could copy and paste both of them within seconds of each other and then Fight it out!!!

The Cleric Build will win!!!

And to rub it in I will take down your character in the end with subdual fist damage!!!! Just so I can deliver a Coup de grace with a feather, proving once again the pen is mightier that the sword!!!

You are of course again assuming that you would have that much time to play with, and that all the Wizard's spells are breaking off your cleric like water on rock. With touch attack spells that can be delivered at a distance and do > 250 points of damage or so, no saving throw or SR, its a matter of you (or anyone else who ****es a wizard off) making one minor error. A level 20 cleric will likely have ~200 hp at most, unless you are twinked out the wazoo. That is even a high estimation. I dont roll PnP twink style DnD. You either have a few really good items, or alot of magical trinkets.

The old "jab until you wear the opponent down" strategy works well until you encounter an opponent that can slay you in one shot. Then its like Mike Tyson fighting a bum in the 80s. A pile of ashes doesnt heal itself lol.

I am not arrogant enough to claim a 100% victory chance, which is statistically impossible given the nature of DnD to begin with.

My original point - A wizard can still slay ARMIES of melee at higher levels. There is no balance of power in DnD, and thats why I like it. People complaining about one spell having too much power should roll up a caster and see what happens when they get too comfortable with the "firewall everything" strategy. Complacency kills more wizards than any prestige cleric build. Not being prepared = dead.

[Chai]

Our guild fully intends to do all high end content with the standard guild rules.

The true challenge will be can the Elite only group do the same!!!!

As far as a change to firewall I would like to see a change to the damage output of the spells per second, as in less often will creatures in the wall take damage allowing them a chance to target and attack!!!

Firewall is just plain boring really!!! I dismay the fact that I will be using it at some point!!!

Dont use it.

I am not being sarcastic here. You play in a PD guild that limits their usage of in game features. This is the same thing really. I have played with effective casters who are acid / lightning speced, or necro speced. There are a few in Sublime that are force speced.

You wont likely be running around the vale or the orchard soloing stuff like firewall wizards do though.

[Duncani_Daho]

Do you also restrict purchases from the AH or brokers? Can people buy 200 heal potions / haste potions / stat potions etc...?[/QUOTE]


Yes Chai, all of those false ways of boosting character power are restricted. We don't allow any purchase of anything magical (the exception is quivers, collectible bags, but not +4 thieves tools or arrows or anything with a +plus on it). So no scrolls of raise dead, or heal, or haste, or anything like that can be purchased. You have to FIND IT to use it. Fight your way to a chest and loot it and hope you get lucky.

We don't even allow House P or J buffs. Buffs are an expendable resource and nothing comes for free in The Core.

And even respecting your points about PnP play, the best way to emulated it in DDO is to say, "Ok, you know what's around every corner; now let's see if you can strategically use your limited resources to complete this mission." If I am your DM in PnP and you try to take an extended rest in a dungeon haunted with undead?!? Well, let's just say you better watch you butt.

Some of our players have NEVER seen the upper level content we are about to explore: The Enemy Within, Spawn of Whisperdoom, Gianthold, the Orchard, etc. Someday we might make it to the Vale and beyond, though the Subterrane gives me shivers galore.

So this style is for the know-it-all veterans who must marshal resources and decide moment by moment when to cast, shield block, throw a big heal, etc. And it's also for new players who explore content on an equal footing, with a high sense of danger, with other party members. We don't spoil.

Given the mechanics of DDO, I would have to say The Core is the closest we can get to PnP style.

[Duncani_Daho]

Nerfing firewall. This might be a topic for a new thread but someone asked so here goes:

Monsters should move out and attempt to preserve their miserable existence instead of standing in a firewall or moving through it repeatedly. I have no idea how difficult this would be to code. But wouldn't it be the most realistic? They get hit once and take damage, then try their best to move away from it.

[Chai]

Nerfing firewall. This might be a topic for a new thread but someone asked so here goes:

Monsters should move out and attempt to preserve their miserable existence instead of standing in a firewall or moving through it repeatedly. I have no idea how difficult this would be to code. But wouldn't it be the most realistic? They get hit once and take damage, then try their best to move away from it.

Yeah coding self preservation into the mobs seems to be harder than we think. Most of your kobolds and goblins will run at the first sign of trouble or at least regroup. Their overall morale sucks when they know theres a chance of failure.

Mobs move out of the firewall, their casters buff them with FR, then they move through it to confront the party that entered their lair. What ever happened to Gust of Wind?

[toughguyjoe]

Ok i've taken something in this thread personal.

Give me your build specs Narc. I'll do this ridiculous deul with you and show you that an Arcane can absolutely destroy your cleric mix. I can gaurantee you your success rate in taking down my specialized Arcane caster will be lower than 20%.

Suggest a level range. Give me a point buy system for my stats. Give me whatever you think would be fair for gear at said level, and i'll build it.

Try to contain your shock and awe when you lose.

*EDIT*

Ok after cooling my heels for a couple hours, I'd still absolutely love to do this. NOthing personal, but I really want to see what build Narc thinks is *that* powerful. I love competition and also love building characters, so if you're willing Narc, lets play!

[KGWiking]

Interesting divergence of the thread.

Good job to all who participated.


KG

[toughguyjoe]

Interesting divergence of the thread.

Good job to all who participated.


KG

I took Improved Thread Derailing at level six.

[Ninetoes]

Fascinating thread. PD Guilds are as old as the game itself. Never been my bag, but I applaud those who attempt it, as long as they don't come at me from a perceived moral high ground.


But, really, Narc. Why in the name of all that is Holy (or at least Pure Good) do you insist on using so many @#$#ing exclamation points in your posts? Attempting to read your prose is almost as bad as trying to slog your way through a conspiracy theorists geocities page.

[KGWiking]

Ninetoes -

I think that PD players play that way for enjoyment of the challenge and the journey.

KG

[Ninetoes]

Ninetoes -

I think that PD players play that way for enjoyment of the challenge and the journey.

KG

I'm aware of this, which is why they have my support instead of my eternal scorn. My previous comment stems with past experiences with PD players who were less than gracious to their follow players. (It was a very long time ago.) Even that hasn't completely jaded me towards them. Everyone should play the games they choose in the manner in which they find the most enjoyable,as long as this manner is not to the detriment of others. PD Players really don't hurt anyone and are far more enjoyable to talk to than your average DDO player.

Where I have butted heads with PD players in the past (and will probably continue to do so) is when they use insane logic or reasoning to justify their playstyle, or operate under the assumption that they're some sort of gaming elite squad. I have a metric gobload of respect for the honest PD player who simply enjoys the challenge and doesn't try to convince me that somehow, he or she is "closer to the PnP experience" or some such nonsense. Honesty over ideals, people. This isn't Pen and Paper, those kobolds don't have 1d4 hit die, and there is no Deck of Many Things (Sadly.) Want to make it fun? Do as thou wilt. Don't buy anything off the AH, or from a store. Don't use certain spells. Set whatever rules you want for your guild. But be aware that this game itself is only designed to reflect the PnP experience to a certain point.

Look, the moment you start looking down on another player for not following your own personal set of "fun" morals, you become no different from the @$$hole Elietest Players who demand to know your gear, spec, level, feat and enhancement list before even speaking to you.

In any case, </rant>. It's not really directed at anyone here anyway.



P.S. I'm still in shock over the flagrant overuse of exclamation marks in this thread.

[toughguyjoe]

I'm aware of this, which is why they have my support instead of my eternal scorn. My previous comment stems with past experiences with PD players who were less than gracious to their follow players. (It was a very long time ago.) Even that hasn't completely jaded me towards them. Everyone should play the games they choose in the manner in which they find the most enjoyable,as long as this manner is not to the detriment of others. PD Players really don't hurt anyone and are far more enjoyable to talk to than your average DDO player.

Where I have butted heads with PD players in the past (and will probably continue to do so) is when they use insane logic or reasoning to justify their playstyle, or operate under the assumption that they're some sort of gaming elite squad. I have a metric gobload of respect for the honest PD player who simply enjoys the challenge and doesn't try to convince me that somehow, he or she is "closer to the PnP experience" or some such nonsense. Honesty over ideals, people. This isn't Pen and Paper, those kobolds don't have 1d4 hit die, and there is no Deck of Many Things (Sadly.) Want to make it fun? Do as thou wilt. Don't buy anything off the AH, or from a store. Don't use certain spells. Set whatever rules you want for your guild. But be aware that this game itself is only designed to reflect the PnP experience to a certain point.

Look, the moment you start looking down on another player for not following your own personal set of "fun" morals, you become no different from the @$$hole Elietest Players who demand to know your gear, spec, level, feat and enhancement list before even speaking to you.

In any case, </rant>. It's not really directed at anyone here anyway.



P.S. I'm still in shock over the flagrant overuse of exclamation marks in this thread.

I agree with this entire rant, including the after remark about exclamation points.

In fact, I especially agree with the comment about exclamation points.

I would also like to point out that Narc hasn't answered me about the "Character Build-off" of sorts.

[Ninetoes]

I would also like to point out that Narc hasn't answered me about the "Character Build-off" of sorts.

I, for one, would love to see this.

Props to you for the confident yet respectful manner in which you threw down the gauntlet.

[toughguyjoe]

*listens to the crickets*


Hellooooo?


Narc?

Cleric uber build? Not seeing it here.