PD Halls of Valhalla - recent growth

[kafrielveddicus]

PD Halls of Valhalla has recently recruited some veteran DDO players, who as well are bringing along some of their fellow previous guildies and friends, this is a big step for us as we truly desire to recruit experienced and skilled players over the new F2P WOWish players, if you are an experienced/veteran player with uber skills please try us out.

Please note we do take on new players but only those that wish to learn the game and are open minded to advice from our experienced guildies!!!!

please check out the website in my sig if you are interested, be sure to check that the top left of the website reads "PD Halls of Valhalla"

[kafrielveddicus]

Please note we also are in the process of running an extreme permadeath challenge static group, maybe two to lead into raids, these groups will run on elite setting only <- now this is challenging!!! And we have the talent of many Experienced/Skilled/Veteran players to accomplish this!!!

I should also state that our guild does in fact run many quests on elite setting, not just run high level quest or high level encounter areas on normal to acquire more powerful gear to use on lower level elite setting quests much later for favor!!!

please feel free to try us out!!!

[KGWiking]

Good luck on the elite only group ---- it's a great idea.

I believe that many would be interested in seeing how your group progresses - as this is a tough venture and would be quite a feat to do all quests on elite only, particularly if done near their level cap.

Are you planning on doing the full compendium?

Again, good luck with this venture!

KG

[kafrielveddicus]

Good luck on the elite only group ---- it's a great idea.

I believe that many would be interested in seeing how your group progresses - as this is a tough venture and would be quite a feat to do all quests on elite only, particularly if done near their level cap.

Are you planning on doing the full compendium?

Again, good luck with this venture!

KG

It is likely most quests will be done above level as a level1 quest is reeally a level 3 quest and that is where we will be starting even something like catacombs would be level 5 and 6, dont know if we will even be that level by then, so it should indeed produce an above group level challenge, ie. it would be like taking level 12 toons and running level 11 quests on elite, we will probably use the unchallenging method of firewalling everything as does most groups with arcane casters (<-this is not a challenge, but we will likely be forced to use this tactic, could you imagine if they removed friendly fire, that would indeeed bring permadeath to a new level).

As a side note those already interested in the first group of six are amidst discussions of not using rest shrines and only running encounter areas for the rares and discoveries (not slayer), just to make it unmatched!!!

As far as the compendium goes, we will do anything and everything as long as it seems feasible to do, ie. devil assault is a level 6 quest on normal but a level 18 quest on elite, so it likely wont be done for a long time!!!

Thanks for your support!!!

[Corstaad]

How do you plan on opening everything in Elite without a run on Hard?

[kafrielveddicus]

How do you plan on opening everything in Elite without a run on Hard?

Unfortunately this question has been asked so many times it is getting really frustrating to answer it!!!

You just need one character(not in actual group) that has run the quest on hard to open the quest, then the group can enter it.

If you really want to learn more about the game and become a skilled player, join many of our veteran/skilled players in our permadeath guild "PD Halls of Valhalla"

[Corstaad]

So your going to have a non-PD quest opener?

[KGWiking]

Not sure I agree that using a Firewall isn't a challenge.

Firewall creates tremendous aggro for the caster, and only a "very skilled" caster can manage to withstand the aggro it generates and stay alive.

I also like to be "thorough" regarding the compendium - but find that even with skipping Normal (forget about solo) and running only Hard/Elite that the levels go faster than the compendium. While the bonuses are a good thing - the XP wraps up fast. This is even accelerated if you do wilderness areas to run as an activity or just en route to quests. So, if you are like me, and enjoy running the content for favor - the XP is too high unless you purposely recall out - which I know you and I both don't like for other reasons.

In any case - best of luck. Perhaps you could post your progress on your URL and make it open to public to view.

KG

[kafrielveddicus]

Not sure I agree that using a Firewall isn't a challenge.

Firewall creates tremendous aggro for the caster, and only a "very skilled" caster can manage to withstand the aggro it generates and stay alive.

KG

Actually for a caster it is really not much of a challenge, especially on normal and hard settings, most casters using firewall are fire specced and have metamagic feats to go with the damage, add this to the defenses the caster can use on their own such as false life, stoneskin, displacement or blur(as you can see very skilled is not necessary but basic knowledge is required), a simple escape mechanism such as dimension door makes it even easier, just ask all the high level veterans that solo 95% (no offence to you high end casters who do 100%) with their arcane casters.

Now take that scenario above and add in 5 other party members, atleast one of which is and can spam heal the arcane when necessary on top of all the other extra defensive buffs that can be thrown down and it really is elementary!!!!

This why you see so many threads asking to nerf firewall and why they nerfed blade barrier!!!!

I would think that seeing as I know that you like to play your guild as true to pen and paper style and things must be logical, that you would consider standing in a firewall as an exploit!!!!

[toughguyjoe]

Actually for a caster it is really not much of a challenge, especially on normal and hard settings, most casters using firewall are fire specced and have metamagic feats to go with the damage, add this to the defenses the caster can use on their own such as false life, stoneskin, displacement or blur(as you can see very skilled is not necessary but basic knowledge is required), a simple escape mechanism such as dimension door makes it even easier, just ask all the high level veterans that solo 95% (no offence to you high end casters who do 100%) with their arcane casters.

Now take that scenario above and add in 5 other party members, atleast one of which is and can spam heal the arcane when necessary on top of all the other extra defensive buffs that can be thrown down and it really is elementary!!!!

This why you see so many threads asking to nerf firewall and why they nerfed blade barrier!!!!

I would think that seeing as I know that you like to play your guild as true to pen and paper style and things must be logical, that you would consider standing in a firewall as an exploit!!!!

Narc, Narc, Narc.

I submit to you: The Enhancement System.

All characters are awarded action points which they spend on Enhancements. These enhancements make their characters better, above and beyond any normal rulings found in PNP dungeons and dragons.

I would think that wanting to make your time in Stormreach and beyond as tough as possible, you would deny your guildmates the ability to spend these completely over powering points!!!!

Or perhaps you could continue with your passive agressive behavior.

And i will continue with my agressive agressive behavior, Sincerely - Chili!

[KGWiking]

So, if I read this correctly FW should be removed? If the Dev's change it - I don't care - a way will be found around that with other mechanics.

Simply put Blade Barrier and FW are probably the two best DPS spells in the game. That they are so powerful is not under my control - and should they be changed - possibly - but the people who coded this game didn't want to recreate D&D which is a tabletop game and does not translate well in a video game.

I try to follow the PnP aspect as much as the game engine allows. That means that I go in using a strategy - and the gather and roast is one strategy that can be used. To me it is just the same as a tank blocking a door to deny a monster access. It would result in a cream of wheat and ketchup scene if this were done in PnP but it is done pretty much by everyone. Would Shield Blocking Wraiths in PNP take away their attacks --- it does in DDO. Does Haste age characters; because it doesn't in DDO. The two are not perfectly in sync.

My primary issue is the AH-The Brokers - The ease of magic acquisition and running many of the quests that are very easy on solo and on normal. That doesn't mean I disallow Solo/Normal play for those in VPD - it just means that I encourage members to take a risk and go into quests that the outcome is not a sure thing. A newer player may need these settings to learn the game - but after awhile it gets a bit ponderous - and it is not in my opinion a worthwhile endeavor. That is partly why I find your elite opening group praiseworthy.

Regarding the skill ability of some - I will say that some players I have run with who use the builds that are allowed in the game are far more skilled than I am in their twitching - quest knowledge and game mechanics. One that comes to my mind is Umbra - who I think was the first PD player to hit higher levels - mostly by himself. I've played with many players - and the few times I played with him I was candidly quite impressed. Now, he did use the AH etc. but that has no bearing on his quest knowledge and knowledge of game mechanics. There was another player - who was not a caster, Vanebot, who basically soloed and duoed with myself (KTD) and another in a PD guild - and he was also a superior player. Did he use the AH etc, yes, but so what - that doesn't mean he wasn't playing at a much higher plane than most I had seen, and this is including both you and me.

So, while I do try to emulate the PnP experience - as much as possible - it doesn't always translate well into a video game format. Let's start with Haste if you want to talk Pnp and we can go from there. Heck, Charm person works differently than it does in PNP - so while I do try to emulate the feel of PnP I also understand that an MMO is not a perfect fit for it.

As for it not taking skill to get to that place where you "have the abilities" to use these spells - I don't know if I could - nor do I know if you could. That style is not my style - I am not comfortable in it - but I can support those that use it by intimitanking and holding aggro - providing heals - etc. That still doesn't mean I could do that role myself, and candidly in the two and half years I've known you I've never grouped with you or seen you actively engaged in any quest harder than Delera's. So, I can't comment on your abilities in this area as I've not seen them.

Finally, regarding how easy it will be for six to succeed using that skill set - you had a full group of Level 12 or 13's who wiped on a level 6 quest on Normal setting. I understand that the quest you ran is difficult, but to say that running level 14 quests - with two or three is "easy with FW" is rather disingenuous when a full party of 12's wiped in Devil Assault. So to say that running small groups of untwinked adventurers in the GH quests who are lvl 12 and who use Firewall is easy --- well - -- I have difficulty with that assessment.



I still wish your group the best.

KG

[GeneralDiomedes]

Unfortunately this question has been asked so many times it is getting really frustrating to answer it!!!

You just need one character(not in actual group) that has run the quest on hard to open the quest, then the group can enter it.

How are you going to do chains? Advance your opener along with the group??

[KGWiking]

If you make a post on this forum and someone disagrees with it I don't think that isn't a personal attack.

I had thought your group was capped on 12 and approaching 13 --- my mistake. I also didn't know it was three.

Firewall was nerfed back in mod 6 or 7.

The problem with FW and other AOE spells is that the AI of the monsters needs to be adjusted. Intelligent monsters need to react intelligently while those monsters such as most giants, ogres, trolls etc who use rage probably act pretty much like they will. I doubt Joe Ogre is working on nuclear submarines in his spare time.

Fix the AI and let the spell do what it is intended to do.

Regarding PnP style - I like to 'emulate" (to rival with some degree of success) that style in an MMO. I chose that word carefully when I put it into the mission statement of VPDG.

If I were "copying" not "emulating" do you think a Drow Pal/Ran/Rog would work too well without enhancements. Yet, I run that blend as well as other blended classes that probably wouldn't do well in Pnp.

With the enhancement system you can make builds that are "too good to be true". That is part of the fun of this game. Also, my knowledge of PnP is from AD&D not 3.5 which is hardly the same game. I flipped when I saw Drow as player characters!


Again -

I think the elite only group is a laudable effort and I wish your group well.

KG

[kafrielveddicus]

How are you going to do chains? Advance your opener along with the group??

That is exactly the plan!!!

[kafrielveddicus]

If you make a post on this forum and someone disagrees with it I don't think that isn't a personal attack.

I had thought your group was capped on 12 and approaching 13 --- my mistake. I also didn't know it was three.

Firewall was nerfed back in mod 6 or 7.

The problem with FW and other AOE spells is that the AI of the monsters needs to be adjusted. Intelligent monsters need to react intelligently while those monsters such as most giants, ogres, trolls etc who use rage probably act pretty much like they will. I doubt Joe Ogre is working on nuclear submarines in his spare time.

Fix the AI and let the spell do what it is intended to do.

Regarding PnP style - I like to 'emulate" (to rival with some degree of success) that style in an MMO. I chose that word carefully when I put it into the mission statement of VPDG.

If I were "copying" not "emulating" do you think a Drow Pal/Ran/Rog would work too well without enhancements. Yet, I run that blend as well as other blended classes that probably wouldn't do well in Pnp.

With the enhancement system you can make builds that are "too good to be true". That is part of the fun of this game. Also, my knowledge of PnP is from AD&D not 3.5 which is hardly the same game. I flipped when I saw Drow as player characters!


Again -

I think the elite only group is a laudable effort and I wish your group well.

KG

Now we are talking and discussing the original concept we both have for challenge, we both agree we would both use firewall tactic(that includes me using it, not an "I am better" post) as I indicated above (my only question above was does it seem like an exploit, as I was surprised that you dont see it that way), I absolutely agree with you that the monster AI is a problem with spells like that, I of course think they could go two ways with it; A) Take out the Friendly fire (which would never work because of grieving) or B) Only let the monsters take damage from the spell once or once every 6 seconds(This would make it more of a challenge for the caster and his intimatank).

Let us continue to be constructive on the subject!!!

[KGWiking]

I agree let's play nice in the pool---- again best wishes in your efforts.

I have to have this conversation many times about emulate as opposed to disavow as opposed to copying. The best one can do in DDO is "emulate" PnP.

KG

[toughguyjoe]

Now we are talking and discussing the original concept we both have for challenge, we both agree we would both use firewall tactic(that includes me using it, not an "I am better" post) as I indicated above (my only question above was does it seem like an exploit, as I was surprised that you dont see it that way), I absolutely agree with you that the monster AI is a problem with spells like that, I of course think they could go two ways with it; A) Take out the Friendly fire (which would never work because of grieving) or B) Only let the monsters take damage from the spell once or once every 6 seconds(This would make it more of a challenge for the caster and his intimatank).

Let us continue to be constructive on the subject!!!

*puts his constructive hat on*

Heres the problem with changing Firewalls damage interval. If you make it damage only once, it becomes a level four fireball - Not desirable nor would the community be impressed one bit to have a fireball that provides a lasting effect that is nothing more than decoration for the quest.

If you make it damage very six seconds, thats not so bad. Six seconds is the same as one round, so it seems to follow. However, since Monsters in this game are so inflated with their hit points, attack bonuses and damage, that their raging smashes become ten times more powerful than FireWall instead of just being about twice as powerful.

Heres the real problem that needs to be discussed:

In Permadeath, should a Wizard/Sorcerer be thought of as an exploiting paraiah for the simple reason that that character can reach his full potential(or 80% of it) without having the best gear?

A Splashed ranger/rogue/monk is one of the most powerful blends in the game if built right, and wait for it......Geared properly.

Sorc and Wizards come with their good stuff built in. While a wizard at level 11 has his sixth level spells handed to him on a platter, a 9ranger/1rogue/1monk only has the AC that his gear and abilities can provide them.

So my question becomes this. Should Wizards/Sorcerers be looked down upon in permadeath? Are they making things too easy?

My answer is no. If the monsters in higher level content did not have resistances, immunities, boat loads of HP, unending spell points and no ability to be interupted while casting, and other, more annoying abilities (air eles anyone?)

Then, and only then would Firewall be OVER powered. Now it is a powerful damaging spell that is at the beck and call of all wizards and sorcerers to combat the intensely strong enemies we begin to encounter when heading towards endgame.

Best part is Narc has me squelched so he can't read this.

[KGWiking]

I think that some of the basis for the "problem with firewalls" is that in all MMO's and DnD in Pnp that they become in some ways geometrically stronger than other players. This is just the way it is.

I still would like to have an Intell check for some spells that are AOE - but on the other hand --- I also like calling in the Napalm!

If you are running with me, you can lay down your firewalls ANYTIME chili with TheRobot. We can have the philosophical tete a tete later!

KG

[kafrielveddicus]

*puts his constructive hat on*

Heres the problem with changing Firewalls damage interval. If you make it damage only once, it becomes a level four fireball - Not desirable nor would the community be impressed one bit to have a fireball that provides a lasting effect that is nothing more than decoration for the quest.

If you make it damage very six seconds, thats not so bad. Six seconds is the same as one round, so it seems to follow. However, since Monsters in this game are so inflated with their hit points, attack bonuses and damage, that their raging smashes become ten times more powerful than FireWall instead of just being about twice as powerful.

Heres the real problem that needs to be discussed:

In Permadeath, should a Wizard/Sorcerer be thought of as an exploiting paraiah for the simple reason that that character can reach his full potential(or 80% of it) without having the best gear?

A Splashed ranger/rogue/monk is one of the most powerful blends in the game if built right, and wait for it......Geared properly.

Sorc and Wizards come with their good stuff built in. While a wizard at level 11 has his sixth level spells handed to him on a platter, a 9ranger/1rogue/1monk only has the AC that his gear and abilities can provide them.

So my question becomes this. Should Wizards/Sorcerers be looked down upon in permadeath? Are they making things too easy?

My answer is no. If the monsters in higher level content did not have resistances, immunities, boat loads of HP, unending spell points and no ability to be interupted while casting, and other, more annoying abilities (air eles anyone?)

Then, and only then would Firewall be OVER powered. Now it is a powerful damaging spell that is at the beck and call of all wizards and sorcerers to combat the intensely strong enemies we begin to encounter when heading towards endgame.

Best part is Narc has me squelched so he can't read this.

I do not squelch anyone, keeping an open mind is important.

The six seconds was just a number it could be adjusted, the point is as long as a single resource can be used by a party to do radical amounts of damage, even if mobs have ridiculous hit points and defenses, it is overpowered, it would be nice to see them tweek it in some way without affecting other aspects of fire attacks, the only way i can see to do that is a damage over time adjustment, this means that you need to have a chance for the monsters to get a chance to deliver minimal to equal amounts of damage to the caster if he/she is going to stand in the firewall or be bouncing around the firewall. Casters have other ways to mitigate this damage via buffs, but atleast they are facing some possiblity of danger, as it stands mobs take damage from the firewall and take time to readjust then take more damage it is a vicious circle!!!

Spoiler: if you want another way to mitigate your wizards damage, be ready to equip a tower shield after casting the firewall, it will give yiu great blocking DR!!!!

[kafrielveddicus]

I think that some of the basis for the "problem with firewalls" is that in all MMO's and DnD in Pnp that they become in some ways geometrically stronger than other players. This is just the way it is.

I still would like to have an Intell check for some spells that are AOE - but on the other hand --- I also like calling in the Napalm!

If you are running with me, you can lay down your firewalls ANYTIME chili with TheRobot. We can have the philosophical tete a tete later!

KG

PnP(3.5 which this game was based off) does not have the MMO Enhancement system. This means spells like this were not as bad in PnP Core, plus they dont have Critical hits or effects, on top of that PnP has some defenses that this game had but removed very quickly (For example complete fire immunity)

Like I have said before, our guild is allowed to use the Firewall tactic, it does not change the fact that I would like to see its effectiveness reduced (as it does not make sense, to have someone stand in fire that does over 300 hp per tick and they don't take a single point of damage), it just seems very cheesy!!!