Specced stunner vs high end DC's

[shawnystyle7]

Just curious if anyone has some insight as to what kind of fort saves some of the high end mobs are sporting. I hear a lot of people saying stunning blows are hard to pull of on high end mobs. I assume this factors in fighter enhancements, kensai, racial (dorf/wf), str, etc etc but what about weighted weapons? Not many mellee use blunt and therefore lose potential for weighted.

DC 10+
+12ish str seems fairly modest
+3 dorf tactics
+3 kensai
+4 fighter tactics
+10 weighted

dc of around 42 seems pretty attainable unless im forgetting something.

This isnt good enough to reliably stun lets say an Orthon or bearded devil? Maybe a caster would have a better idea but any feedback would be appreciated.

[WolfSpirit]

+10 Weighted?
I thought it was +1 to DC per 1%. Therfore at best 5% Weighted would incur +5.
No?

[shawnystyle7]

+10 Weighted?
I thought it was +1 to DC per 1%. Therfore at best 5% Weighted would incur +5.
No?

its +2 DC per every percent weighted.

[Kaervas]

Just curious if anyone has some insight as to what kind of fort saves some of the high end mobs are sporting. I hear a lot of people saying stunning blows are hard to pull of on high end mobs. I assume this factors in fighter enhancements, kensai, racial (dorf/wf), str, etc etc but what about weighted weapons? Not many mellee use blunt and therefore lose potential for weighted.

DC 10+
+12ish str seems fairly modest
+3 dorf tactics
+3 kensai
+4 fighter tactics
+10 weighted

dc of around 42 seems pretty attainable unless im forgetting something.

This isnt good enough to reliably stun lets say an Orthon or bearded devil? Maybe a caster would have a better idea but any feedback would be appreciated.

I have a 34 Fort save on my Necromancy spells at the moment and they landed quite well in Bastion after an Energy Drain (2d4 negative levels, it might use the loaded dice that damage spells use for 2d2+4 negative levels).
I can't tell you the mobs exact fort saves though.

42 DC should be reliable. It's effectively the same odds I have to land a Wail/heightened FoD after a perfect Energy Drain.

[shawnystyle7]

I have a 34 Fort save on my Necromancy spells at the moment and they land well after an Energy Drain (2d4 negative levels, it might use the loaded dice that damage spells use for 2d2+4 negative levels).

42 DC should be reliable. It's effectively the same odds I have to land a Wail/heightened FoD after a perfect Energy Drain.

Very nice ty, and this is against high fort save mobs correct?

[Kaervas]

Very nice ty, and this is against high fort save mobs correct?

It's the orthons and bearded devils in Bastion of Power.
On the tieflings I have pretty good odds even without Energy Drain.

Oh, I should add that this is with 6 people on normal mode. So maybe it's not really viable on hard or elite.

[shawnystyle7]

It's the orthons and bearded devils in Bastion of Power.
On the tieflings I have pretty good odds even without Energy Drain.

Oh, I should add that this is with 6 people on normal mode. So maybe it's not really viable on hard or elite.

ty for the info
+rep

[SouCarioca]

Just curious if anyone has some insight as to what kind of fort saves some of the high end mobs are sporting. I hear a lot of people saying stunning blows are hard to pull of on high end mobs. I assume this factors in fighter enhancements, kensai, racial (dorf/wf), str, etc etc but what about weighted weapons? Not many mellee use blunt and therefore lose potential for weighted.

DC 10+
+12ish str seems fairly modest
+3 dorf tactics
+3 kensai
+4 fighter tactics
+10 weighted

dc of around 42 seems pretty attainable unless im forgetting something.

This isnt good enough to reliably stun lets say an Orthon or bearded devil? Maybe a caster would have a better idea but any feedback would be appreciated.

Bear in mind that maxxing out all the enhancements is expensive.

That said, the biggest difference between this and FOD is the cost. A missed Stun is not a big deal, and you'll still be swinging whatever the result. Just a miss and hit in FOD can will cost you 100 SP (heightened), more if you need to soften them up with another spell first.and that will weigh far more in the mage's equation.

Thanks for this post, as it has made me rethink my enhancement specing in the Axe Murderer profile below. I already started it BTW, and have been very pleased with it so far.

[heyytoi]

today i got my guy to 55 Dc on stunning blow!!

[shawnystyle7]

It's the orthons and bearded devils in Bastion of Power.
On the tieflings I have pretty good odds even without Energy Drain.

Oh, I should add that this is with 6 people on normal mode. So maybe it's not really viable on hard or elite.

today i got my guy to 55 Dc on stunning blow!!

holy heck! what +'s wasnt i factoring in there?

[maddmatt70]

A +12 strength for a fighter is pretty low actually when you factor in power surge and the rage spell. Really what you post is closer to a 46 and 47 with rage which is very solid.

[heyytoi]

[SouCarioca]

A +12 strength for a fighter is pretty low actually when you factor in power surge and the rage spell. Really what you post is closer to a 46 and 47 with rage which is very solid.

Would Gloves of Titan's grip overlap? They add +6 psionic bonus to strength .

[Aeneas]

double reincarnate as a fighter for 2 more.

[maddmatt70]

Would Gloves of Titan's grip overlap?

Yes. Gloves of titan overlaps (also titan cookies). There is also TR past fighter lives, +4 str tomes, Madstone, Litany of the dead, multi-class builds as the previous poster illustrated with barbarian levels, etc.

[SouCarioca]

Just curious if anyone has some insight as to what kind of fort saves some of the high end mobs are sporting. I hear a lot of people saying stunning blows are hard to pull of on high end mobs. I assume this factors in fighter enhancements, kensai, racial (dorf/wf), str, etc etc but what about weighted weapons? Not many mellee use blunt and therefore lose potential for weighted.

DC 10+
+12ish str seems fairly modest
+3 dorf tactics
+3 kensai
+4 fighter tactics
+10 weighted

dc of around 42 seems pretty attainable unless im forgetting something.

This isnt good enough to reliably stun lets say an Orthon or bearded devil? Maybe a caster would have a better idea but any feedback would be appreciated.

I took a look at this in the Char planner, wondering whether I had made a mistake in not putting more into this, but now I wonder whether stunning blow will be viable in the later stages. The reason is the sheer cost to get it high enough to be worthwhile.

+3 Dwarf tactics costs a whopping 12 enhancement points (2+4+6), which makes it tough to justify, and Fighter tactics IV would cost a total of 10 (1+2+3+4), in which I had planned to take III.

One option would be to drop Fighter Strength III, and eat a +1 Tome, which would allow me to take an extra 2 Stunning Blow enhancements, but I had planned on keeping the Strength even to eat a +2 tome instead.

Thoughts?

[TheDjinnFor]

I took a look at this in the Char planner, wondering whether I had made a mistake in not putting more into this, but now I wonder whether stunning blow will be viable in the later stages. The reason is the sheer cost to get it high enough to be worthwhile.

+3 Dwarf tactics costs a whopping 12 enhancement points (2+4+6), which makes it tough to justify, and Fighter tactics IV would cost a total of 10 (1+2+3+4), in which I had planned to take III.

One option would be to drop Fighter Strength III, and eat a +1 Tome, which would allow me to take an extra 2 Stunning Blow enhancements, but I had planned on keeping the Strength even to eat a +2 tome instead.

Thoughts?

The only thing I can say is, check out Improved Trip. If your build allows it, like most kensai fighters, you ought to invest in that too (or, heck, just go with regular trip). Take the last six points you throw in dwarf tactics and spend it in improved trip III, and you'll have two extremely potent abilities. Just make sure you've got two feats to spare, because you need Combat Expertise and Int 13 to get Improved Trip.

I'm sure, though, that you're like most fighters I know with a couple of extra toughness feats that you took for the heck of it. When it comes down to it, Improved Trip (or just tripping stuff) is worth more than Stunning Blow at the end game due to the greater number of mobs weak to it and it's ability to remove a mob from the fight for up to a minute. Plus the fact that it's an opposed Str/Dex check to avoid and then a balance check to recover, rather than a fort save, which is generally good for you. If you're taking dwarf tactics, you might as well use it, and when it comes down to enhancement investment you can't go wrong unless your fighter is so twinked out its DPS makes SB and IT irrelevant.

[Sinni]

The only thing I can say is, check out Improved Trip. If your build allows it, like most kensai fighters, you ought to invest in that too (or, heck, just go with regular trip). Take the last six points you throw in dwarf tactics and spend it in improved trip III, and you'll have two extremely potent abilities. Just make sure you've got two feats to spare, because you need Combat Expertise and Int 13 to get Improved Trip.

I'm sure, though, that you're like most fighters I know with a couple of extra toughness feats that you took for the heck of it. When it comes down to it, Improved Trip (or just tripping stuff) is worth more than Stunning Blow at the end game due to the greater number of mobs weak to it and it's ability to remove a mob from the fight for up to a minute. Plus the fact that it's an opposed Str/Dex check to avoid and then a balance check to recover, rather than a fort save, which is generally good for you. If you're taking dwarf tactics, you might as well use it, and when it comes down to enhancement investment you can't go wrong unless your fighter is so twinked out its DPS makes SB and IT irrelevant.

i can only second that. In addition improved trip has a cooldown of 10 seconds where as stunning blow has a 15 sec cooldown. And the DC is also increased by 4.
On my falchion kensai tripping orthons and the like worked in about 90% of the cases, without using a vertigo weapon to enhance the DC and without insane amounts of str like that barbarian screenshot (18 base str, 5 lvl ups, +2 tome, +6 item, power surge, no other buffs needed). the main problem with imp trip is the 13 int you need.
another nice thing about trip is that it works against all undead (except ghosts) and constructs.

[Djeserit]

I ran with a stunning blow specc'd kensai dwarf the other night in Prey and it was...stunning!

I think this feat has always been underrated, finally coming into its own.

My two ideas to add are

* cloak of curses

* fearsome armor

If the mobs hit the curse, they get -4 to save. If they get shaken, that's a further -2. Unlikely high level mobs will get fear and actually run off.

Alternatively, have a friendly monk run around and hit everything with handwraps of greater cursespewing.

This will help overcome even the tough mobs on elite.

And then also if you are dual-wielding 5% weighted, it's sort of like dual wielding vorpal in between cooldowns.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

Unlikely high level mobs will get fear and actually run off.

You'd be surprised...

Drop the frearsome idea, it will make you very unpopular in raid groups.