Is a splash of rouge worth it?

[Ggcpres]

I have a level 3 elven wizard whom i am training in arcane fliudity. i was gun ho on taking one level of rogue (ending with 19 wiz/1 rog) but then I found the spell knock.

while i want to be able to solo i'm not sure that rogue would really still be worth it for me because I would still be able to unlock chests and wear light armor without it.

so, i'm asking you more experianced players (i'm a bit of a noob myself) is ti worth it? Why or Why not?

[Braegan]

If you wanted to max out skills you would have done so at level 1 by taking a rogue level then. To do so later would really be too costly, and would gimp yourself of one of the best capstones in game. Stay pure, stay displaced and hasted.

[Irinis]

A splash of rouge? Depends on your looks, dear. Some people just do better with less rouge. :P


That said, if you plan on splashing Rogue, it's best to take it at first level and then 1 more level later on because they get more skill points. Wiz and Rogue have good synergy because they both need high INT. If you are going to take knock, don't even put any points into open locks and rely on other Rogues for the first few levels.

If you're already a pure Wiz, either stay pure or reroll for those extra skill points rather than splashing now. At level 3 it's not too late to reroll.

[cdemeritt]

Well... to splash a level rogue after starting a toon, worth it, yes, but not as good as if you started with this in mind.

For soloablity, the most common wiz/rogue mix is the Warforged Wiz/Rogue 18/2 . What makes this build great is that Wiz INT matches with Rogue Skills, allowing a solid rogue even with only 2 levels.. With Evasion (granted to lvl 2 rogues) and insightful reflexes (feat), you become almost immune to AoE's that have a reflex save. Plus you have all the arcane power, and ability to swap spells at will (important when soloing to have all the right spells) and self-healing (via the repair spell) you become almost unstoppable at higher levels, once you learn to play it. (player skill will always be a factor in soloing)

Most people however, if they are going to build a splash rogue (for skills or Evasion) start with 1st lvl rogue ...Why? Because you get a lot of extra skill points to boost the rogue skills (and others) right from the start... Then they save the 2nd lvl of rogue until around lvl 9, where the extra skill points can be used to maximum potential.

But this is just one option

[Demoyn]

A splash of rouge? Depends on your looks, dear. Some people just do better with less rouge. :P

I'd have given you reputation if you hadn't added the other two paragraphs to this.

[Irinis]

I'd have given you reputation if you hadn't added the other two paragraphs to this.

Aww, but I want more little green boxes!

[Clay]

Depends on how much you want your cheekbones to stand out, I suppose.

[Demoyn]

Aww, but I want more little green boxes!

I'm sure you'll get there soon enough, but when you add useful information that soon after an insult many people will miss the insult. In my book, a good insult that doesn't get seen is the same as an insult that is never said (useless silence).

[Xyfiel]

Aww, but I want more little green boxes!

There, now you have another one.
I like a dab, a splash is just too much.

Seriously, both builds are fine at end game.

[jsaving]

I have a level 3 elven wizard whom i am training in arcane fliudity. i was gun ho on taking one level of rogue (ending with 19 wiz/1 rog) but then I found the spell knock.

while i want to be able to solo i'm not sure that rogue would really still be worth it for me because I would still be able to unlock chests and wear light armor without it.

so, i'm asking you more experianced players (i'm a bit of a noob myself) is ti worth it? Why or Why not?

You should absolutely *never* splash rogue just to open locks -- most items you'll get from locked chests are vendor trash and definitely aren't worth sacrificing power elsewhere.

On the other hand, wizards can make very good trapsmiths as their high INT helps with search and ensures they'll have enough skill points to max search/disarm. Stealth becomes more of an option too, if you want to go that route. The main problem here is that you basically threw away 24 skill points by not doing the splash at 1st level, so you'll probably want to reroll if you do decide to splash rogue.

(If you do the 1-level splash, it's quite common to pick up a second level of rogue around 10th level for evasion, especially if you plan to acquire the insightful reflexes feat at some point.)

[Irinis]

I'm sure you'll get there soon enough, but when you add useful information that soon after an insult many people will miss the insult. In my book, a good insult that doesn't get seen is the same as an insult that is never said (useless silence).

Ah, thank you for isolating my good insult into a quote and making sure people don't miss it. Next time I'll put a LOT more space between the insult and the advice! SNARK WILL BE SEEN!

[richieelias]

Splash rogue for evasion, not open lock. 2 rogue levels or bust.

With that in mind, it doesnt much matter when you do it so long as you dont care about skillpoints.


All builds are better when thought out from the beginning, but honestly it would not be all that bad if you made it to 18 and decided: "*fiddlesticks... I really need evasion".



*seriously... this board has the most sensitive word filter I've ever seen. They dont even allow the other word for feces that begins with "p"

[Therigar]

Splash rogue for evasion, not open lock. 2 rogue levels or bust.

With that in mind, it doesnt much matter when you do it so long as you dont care about skillpoints.


All builds are better when thought out from the beginning, but honestly it would not be all that bad if you made it to 18 and decided: "*fiddlesticks... I really need evasion".



*seriously... this board has the most sensitive word filter I've ever seen. They dont even allow the other word for feces that begins with "p"

This is the most useful reply in this thread and most accurate. With a wizard's abundant number of feats you can capitalize on the synergy of your high INT with some key rogue skills and one feat selection.

Knock is a useful spell but has its drawbacks. Having the rogue open lock skill is often more desireable. However, this is accurate:

You should absolutely *never* splash rogue just to open locks -- most items you'll get from locked chests are vendor trash and definitely aren't worth sacrificing power elsewhere.

The one feat that really helps your wizard is Insightful Reflexes. Your huge INT means you will use the INT bonus for DEX based saves when you've got that feat.

The two skills from rogue that are massively synergetic are Search and Disable Device. These are much more valuable to you than Open Locks will ever be.

People will talk about proper planning and starting with rogue before switching to wizard. They are not wrong. However, it is not end of the world horrible if you decide to splash in rogue late in the build. Rogue has more skill points than any other class so you get maximum benefit at L1 when the skill points are quadrupled. With a sick INT you can max out every genuinely useful skill with some points to spare.

The trick comes when you are working your wizard levels. Because rogue skills are almost entirely cross-classed to wizard skills you need 2 points for every 1 point of skill improvement. Fortunately you don't really need any of the wizard skills -- maybe concentration but after that nothing else really matters that much.

Now the issue becomes which rogue skills do you keep up to speed?

If you are in it just for the evasion then even that does not matter. But, if you are in it for the added skill set that can come with rogue then the choices do matter. Splashing late means you have fewer points to spend getting those skills to maximum level and as a result have fewer different skills maxed out.

If it were me with a L3 wizard I'd reroll and start off with rogue. But that is just me.